Project Help!!

[eball429]

I recently purchased an older V-drive and have moved the project into my garage. Pictures of the boat are located in the identification forum. I need some good advice on how to tackle some of the problem areas.

Problem 1: The boat deck or bow area is completely delaminated underneath and sags considerably in the dash area because of a crack in the center of the dash and because the boat laid upside down in a field with the tachometer tube still installed for quite some time. How is the best way to repair? All I can come up with is to cut it out, make some formers in the bow area and add plywood and glass to re-form the deck. Any other suggestions?

Problem 2: Stringer fiberglass is delaminated from the wood stringers. The wood seems very dried out and I think the stringers need completely replaced. What type of wood do I use and does anyone have any tips on replacement?

Problem 3: The wood under the gunnels or cockpit coaming is very dried out and needs to be removed. Do I need to replace the wood or is the fiberglass strong enough without? With all of the problems on the top of the boat should I cut the seam around the deck, rework the deck while flipped in my garage and re-attach to the deck to the hull? I know this would be an extremely large project with a lot of opportunities to distort the hull shape, but this is the only way I can think to save the original shape an glass shell of the deck unless I was to do a lot of overhead work while laying on my back. Do I just need to suck it up and do a bunch of fiberglass work while laying on my back?

Thanks for any help or suggestions you might provide!

Eric

[poncho]

Eric what can i say,smart money says bail but i guess i don't belong to that group based on what i have into mine,if you suspect stringer problems is it wise to patch or fully replace only you can answer that,i just had my port side stringer replaced by someone else for a lot of money which was all labor, we discussed in the beginning replacing the bad sections but i knew that wasn't right,mine had several issues so start rippin and see what you got.As far as you're dash goes i don't see a big deal i`m sure theres good material on each side to tie into

[RiverRacer]

Sounds like a project from the ground up, if you can do glass work then it can be fun(I guess)if not you're looking at a ton of $$$$$$$$$$$$$!.. Anything that's rotted, broke or delamed needs to be replaced!.. If you're going to tackle it yourself, make real sure the hull is well supported(not on a trailer)before you start removing all the crap, otherwise the hull will tweak and it will end up out of shape and never work!...

[shooter2]

This is my story about re-doing a boat. My Temptation, b-type boat was in dire need of some internal work. So away I went to Temptation boats. I had an adavantage here though I worked for the owner for a few years building boats. We put the boat back into the assembly mold. A mold that the hull went into right after we popped it and before the deck went on it. That is when we gutted it and cut the deck of it. If you can find some way to support the boat so it doesnt lose it shape on you then you are ready to go to town. This is a must. I know taking the deck off sounds huge and its not for the faint of heart or timid, but you will get a better job in the end as you are able to get into everplace with ease. If I had a buck or two for every short cut I have tried than regretted, I would have alot of money. And if the boat is this much of a project and you are going this deep than you might as well do it so it is a really good job. Just take your time and it will be something to be proud of. Look at Paul and Buzz's boat, or Mike's Wickens, or Art's Rayson. They were not done over night but are or will be very nice when they are done.

Brian

[Roaddogg 4040]

Excellent advice Brian...

Steve

[eball429]

I've decided to go ahead and remove the deck. I worked today removing all the remaining hardware and will start building a cradle for the boat tomorrow. My objective is to build a cradle or fixture that will keep the hull form in it's original shape while I remove the deck. There's just too much things wrong with the deck to do it any other way. Also, this should make stringer replacement and any other hull work much easier. I like the look of this boat way too much to give up on it and I don't mind doing all the work myself. Thanks for the advice and I'll keep you updated on my progress.

[RiverRacer]

Very cool, should be a fun project. Just make sure that the cradle is sturdy and it fit's the boat perfectly and can't move one iota, because once the deck comes off, the hull is one limp dick, and once you're done the deck should just sit right back on exactly how it was when it came off!..

[shooter2]

Heres another thought that made putting the deck back on my boat easier. We left all the decals and numbers on the boat, so this way we could line it up really well I will try to find my pics of this and get them scanned for you. What might work for you is to put marks along the hull and deck that will still be there after you are done the hull and deck on the inside.

Brian

[eball429]

I pulled the kick panel out today and proceeded to remove a trash can full of dirt from the bow area. I started pulling delaminated fiberglass from under the deck and found 1" thick foam under the thin glass sheet. The entire bow area under the deck has this 1" foam and fiberglass lamination. I plan to remove all of it because of the poor condition. Was it there for flotation or to add structural support? Does this give any clues to when this hull was built? Also, ahead of the kick panel there are two other cross supports glassed to the hull and a stem in the center going all the way to the bow. It looks like this was a pretty sturdy hull for it's day, but neglect has taken it's toll on the poor hull. The wood inside the stringers is very dry and mostly delaminated from the fiberglass shell. Are there any tricks to safe the stringers as is? I'm reconsidering deck removal unless I absolutely have to. The deck seam is very solid and the only real reason to remove the deck is to gain better access. Will the deck be okay without the foam and fiberglass honeycomb? It does have four wooden supports going fore and aft that I believe add the majority of support.

Eric

[eball429]

Good News: I removed two trash barrels full of foam from under the deck and decided it could be repaired without removing the deck.

Bad News: I next started working on an area on the bottom of the hull where the fiberglass was delaminating a little. I pulled off a piece of the fiberglass and found that there was plywood on the bottom. The bottom of the hull is a fiberglass, plywood, fiberglass sandwich. I kept removing the
1/4" thick fiberglass in search of dry plywood and before I knew it I had removed all of the glass from the port side of the boat. All of the plywood is soaking wet :( I pulled up a small patch area from the starboard side of the hull to inspect the plywood and it's wet too. I'm thinking my options are to ditch the project or completely rebuild the bottom of the hull. Has anyone done anything like this before? Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Eric

[Roaddogg 4040]

You have a ton more patience that I have. I wouldn't keep going if it was mine. But I am sure you have a tom more energy that I have at my age...:D

Steve

[RiverRacer]

Well, glad to hear you're not removing the deck I didn't think that was a good idea to begin with!.. You have a tipical floor and it has delaminated and water got in there and now is rotting, so, you need to rip that plywood out and lay new one in, it's been done many times before!..

[tunnelrunner]

OUCH!!!! Sounds like a WHOLE lotta work coming up there. I don't know squat about fibreglass really, but it sounds like another hull might be an easier option?

Hope it works out!

[eball429]

I'm afraid I have really screwed up and I'm not sure if I can fix it. I was working on the bottom of the boat and removing the outer fiberglass shell. I should have left that material and ripped out the fiberglass, stringers and floor from the inside (floor replacement). I have one half of the outer fiberglass skin removed from the bottom and plywood is exposed. Did I just ruin this hull?

[poncho]

Oh man that hadda hurt,i am no boat builder so i`ll avoid what can or cant be done,one of the crew will be along soon i`m sure,probably comes down what you are willing to do,remember it was built by hand so stands to reason it can be rebuilt by human hands,good luck man

[poncho]

PS:i doubt youre an idiot,lol

[RiverRacer]

Yep, it gets done from the inside, but all it means is more work. Glass it all back in and make sure you get the bottom right, then turn it back over and proceed where you left off!..

[tunnelrunner]

Yep, it gets done from the inside, but all it means is more work. Glass it all back in and make sure you get the bottom right, then turn it back over and proceed where you left off!..

Geezzz, makes it sound easy, doesn't he!

[RiverRacer]

Geezzz, makes it sound easy, doesn't he!

Yeah, if you're into glass work it is, I know guys that would look at that and say , "piece a cake".LOL..:D

[lebel409]

My boat was structurally sound, cosmetically bad. I cut my losses and paid $$$$ to be sure it was right...that's my limits, not yours.

However, you could look at this as an opportunity...

Use the new synthetic stringer material instead of spruce.

Use the new synthetic floor material instead of plywood...although you could also go old school and use a balsa inlaid floor.

With time and patience it could come out better than original.

A couple of other thoughts...being that the stringers and floor are both shot...make some very serious/precise measurements to determine that if the boat is square now. Build the dolly, remember that the floor of your work area isn't flat...so moving it will change everything. The dolly will have to be your constant.

Best of luck.

[eball429]

You must have read my mind on the composite materials instead of wood. I'd been thinking; why in the world would I want to go back with something that didn't really last that long when there are so many new materials available that will never rot? I've got a plan and it's definitely not conventional. Once I get everything ripped out and price materials I'll make the final decision whether to go for it or bail. I'm not afraid of the work and think this will be a fun, rewarding project if I take my time to do it right. Since I've already proved to be a bit Polish I'm going to tackle this all from the bottom side of the boat :eek: I plan to remove stringers from the bottom and use the stringer fiberglass shells and the glass floor as a mold for composite stringers made from epoxy mixxed with small carbon fibers. Once the stringers are in I'll start reglassing the bottom using some modern epoxies, fiberglass and carbon filler material.

[FC-Pilot]

Eball429, so what are you going to use for a core material? We built a hull that has Nida-Core for the core material. IT is much lighter and the wood and it can't rot out. We have not run the boat yet so I can't give you specifics on how it works, but I know Duff Dailey has been running a circle boat with it. Although you can't beat the look of a Balsa floor. Although I do have to say, I would try to put the bottom back on the boat and work from the inside down. That is just me though.

Paul

[poncho]

I for one look forward to youre progress,right on dude

[Roaddogg 4040]

I sure give you all the credit in the world for tackling this job. I only thought is that you will have so much time and money tied up in this the most people would just get burned out before it is finished and then loose everything.

Sounds like that won't be your problem so full speed ahead. I am looking forward to the pictures. Good luck...

Steve

[eball429]

Thanks for the support guys! I'll post some pictures once I have the bottom and stringers removed. I've done some pricing on epoxy and glass and have done some calculations on how much I'll need for the stringers. It's not going to be cheap, but I still think it's worth the time, effort and money. I have carbon felt available from work and I have a coworker that has done some experiments with the felt fibers blended up with good results. I'll use the carbon felted blended up and mixed with epoxy for the stringers and a foam core to make the stringers a hollow beam since the composite stringers will be 10 to 20 times stronger (minimum) than the equivalent douglas fir stringers.

[TonkaDriver]

eball429,

I have a project boat posted in classifieds. AquaCraft Shark. I bought it from Flatmvn. Check it out. May save you a bunch of time and effort. The hull is solid and you would be hundreds of hours ahead of where you are with your current project. The bunks on the trailer need to be moved to fit the boat properly. Check it out and shoot me an Email or a PM if you are interested. You would not be one bit disappointed with this boat.

Kurt

[RiverRacer]

Yeah, wish I could grab it!..:(

[Flatmvn]

eball,

I can vouch for the boat that Kurt has. From what I have read in you post you would be $$$ ahead and Hours ahead to start with a hull that is in alot better condition. The boat Kurt has doesn't need any wood replaced all it needs is the floors redone and a new paint job. As for the rigging it is all there you would just have to reinstall it to your liking.

Here are a couple more pics of it. I have more but would have to search for them. It is a very solid boat.

Louis

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb16/flatmvn/Oddities/DSC_0001-1.jpg

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb16/flatmvn/Oddities/DSC_0002.jpg

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb16/flatmvn/Oddities/DSC_0005.jpg

[Norseman]

eball429,

I have a project boat posted in classifieds. AquaCraft Shark. I bought it from Flatmvn. Check it out. May save you a bunch of time and effort. The hull is solid and you would be hundreds of hours ahead of where you are with your current project. The bunks on the trailer need to be moved to fit the boat properly. Check it out and shoot me an Email or a PM if you are interested. You would not be one bit disappointed with this boat.

Kurt

Kurt;

Where the boat located?

Bob

[TonkaDriver]

Kurt;

Where the boat located?

Bob

Bagdad, AZ

[TonkaDriver]

To add to what Louis said, There is no delamination anywhere in the boat. My plan was to lay a wood veneer down on the floor and glass it in and flowcoat it. The bottom is as virgin as they get. The seam from when the boat was first put together is still very visible. These boats were put together in 3 pieces. This boat design is the predecessor to the Biesemeyer. Give it some thought.

Kurt

[Moneypit]

Yeah, wish I could grab it!..:(

Art, that time is a lot closer than you think.........Ray

[RiverRacer]

Art, that time is a lot closer than you think.........Ray

Ya think!..:confused:

[eball429]

That definitely looks like a nice boat and really puts things in perspective for me, but I'm afraid that I can't justify a trip to Arizona for a boat hull (my wife would castorate me:eek:). I think it may be time to get back to my jet boat project. I have a very nice 1977 Bob Warren Hurricane hull that's a jet boat. Actually, when I found this V-drive for sale my only intention was to rob the hardware off the hull and use it in the jet boat, but I became very attached to the looks of this V-drive. Here are some pictures of my jet boat hull. What do you guys think is best? Should I convert it to V-drive and sell the jet pump parts on ebay or should I put it back together stock and save the V-drive parts for a future project? How does a V-drive run without cavitation plates? I'm looking for an awesome ski boat with minimal wake.

Thanks,
Eric

[eball429]

Here's some pictures of the Hurricane.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj178/eball429/Hurricane001.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj178/eball429/Hurricane002.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj178/eball429/Hurricane020.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj178/eball429/Hurricane023.jpg

[Flatmvn]

That definitely looks like a nice boat and really puts things in perspective for me, but I'm afraid that I can't justify a trip to Arizona for a boat hull (my wife would castorate me:eek:). I think it may be time to get back to my jet boat project. I have a very nice 1977 Bob Warren Hurricane hull that's a jet boat. Actually, when I found this V-drive for sale my only intention was to rob the hardware off the hull and use it in the jet boat, but I became very attached to the looks of this V-drive. Here are some pictures of my jet boat hull. What do you guys think is best? Should I convert it to V-drive and sell the jet pump parts on ebay or should I put it back together stock and save the V-drive parts for a future project? How does a V-drive run without cavitation plates? I'm looking for an awesome ski boat with minimal wake.

Thanks,
Eric


Ok you are asking guys on a V-Drive site If you should have a jet or V-Drive. Man you are just asking for abuse. :D

In My opinion you should put the Jet back together make it simple, keep the expenses to a minimum but do thing right. Sell the Jet as complete and ready to go item. Then take the money you get from the jet and invest it in a nice V-Drive. You will be surprised at the prices you can find a very decent hull and some times a complete boat for if you have some patients and look around.

From what you have said about the V-Drive hull that you have It is going to take a lot more money and time than you realize to even have it in any condition to be a decent boat. Just my .02 worth.

Louis

[Flatmvn]

Eric where are you located maybe we could help you locate something in you area. There are boats every where.

Louis

[AquaCraft]

Eric,

Your Hurricane hull with v-bottom and lifting strakes will always dig a hole and make a sizeable wake no matter what propulsion you use. That hull was built for a jet, outboard or in-and-out, not a v-drive.

As suggested you will be many dollars and hours ahead of the game if you reassemble the jet boat, sell it and use the proceeds towards your v-drive.

In addition to the great hull already offerred for $1,000, for perspective take a look at the complete Lebel GR8WHITE just found for under $3,000.

For more perspective, I paid $1,500 for my complete Aqua-Craft (below) that granted needed EVERYTHING gone through; but the hull was sound and needed only a good cleaning and rubbing out of gel coat.

Be patient when you are shopping, the right boat is out there right now in the back of a dusty garage waiting for your attention, you just have to find it.

That's my two more cents...

Aqua Craft

[eball429]

I'm located near Joplin Missouri (southwest corner of Missouri). I appreciate all of the good advice. I picked up this V-drive for only $150 off of Craigslist and haven't invested anything but time in it yet. I thought it would be cool to save the boat, but my project time isn't what it used to be since having a couple of kids. I'll probably finish the jet boat, take it out a couple of times and if it's not doing it for me I'll sell and look for a V-drive.

Eric

[eball429]

AquaCraft - Awesome job on the boat and I love the Nailhead!!

[hm66Howard]

Eric,

Your Hurricane hull with v-bottom and lifting strakes will always dig a hole and make a sizeable wake no matter what propulsion you use. That hull was built for a jet, outboard or in-and-out, not a v-drive.

As suggested you will be many dollars and hours ahead of the game if you reassemble the jet boat, sell it and use the proceeds towards your v-drive.

In addition to the great hull already offerred for $1,000, for perspective take a look at the complete Lebel GR8WHITE just found for under $3,000.

For more perspective, I paid $1,500 for my complete Aqua-Craft (below) that granted needed EVERYTHING gone through; but the hull was sound and needed only a good cleaning and rubbing out of gel coat.

Be patient when you are shopping, the right boat is out there right now in the back of a dusty garage waiting for your attention, you just have to find it.

That's my two more cents...

Aqua CraftBitchin! Love the before and after shot. :D

[RiverRacer]

I agree with Louis, it's clean just put it together and dump it and get a v-drive, you have no idea what it would cost to convert it to a v-drive, and it would never work the way it should!..

[eball429]

I couldn't bring myself to take the boat out of the garage. I've decided I'm going to follow through with this one and come hell or high water I'll have an old V-drive. The old core hulls are known for problems and I plan to fix mine for good. I've got a lot of tools and I've built some crazy stuff before. I know it's going to be a lot of work, but what else am I going to do with my free time (and money)? I'll post pictures as I make progress.

Eric

[poncho]

alright man keep the progress pics coming

[GR8WHITE]

Eric,

Your Hurricane hull with v-bottom and lifting strakes will always dig a hole and make a sizeable wake no matter what propulsion you use. That hull was built for a jet, outboard or in-and-out, not a v-drive.

As suggested you will be many dollars and hours ahead of the game if you reassemble the jet boat, sell it and use the proceeds towards your v-drive.

In addition to the great hull already offerred for $1,000, for perspective take a look at the complete Lebel GR8WHITE just found for under $3,000.

For more perspective, I paid $1,500 for my complete Aqua-Craft (below) that granted needed EVERYTHING gone through; but the hull was sound and needed only a good cleaning and rubbing out of gel coat.

Be patient when you are shopping, the right boat is out there right now in the back of a dusty garage waiting for your attention, you just have to find it.

That's my two more cents...

Aqua Craft

he is totally right, i have been looking for a boat for a couple of months and every time there was a decent looking boat i went and looked at it and it was just too much for me to get into, and i know how much time and money i will have to put in. most hulls with or without a v-drive are running around 1000.00-1500.00 bucks and i found my boat on craigslist too and it had no price, the guy said make me an offer so i did and we worked it out to 2800.00, and come to find out the hull is cutom made and pretty rare only 20-30 ever made, and i ran the numbers on the engine and just the 1969 427 chevy in it is worth as much if not more than what i paid. what i have noticed from taking on many projects (my last car was a turbo s13 silvia drift car ) was that buying something mostly complete will save you hell of alot of money in the end, its all the little stuff that makes your wallet puke in your back pocket :eek:, fix up the jet, sell it and buy a mostly complete v-drive and then put some work into it.:D