New Boat and No I.D. - Please Help!!

[eball429]

I just picked up my first V-drive and I think it's a Diamond hull, but have no idea what year the hull is and what engine used to be in it. I would greatly appreciate any input you might have. The boat is pretty rough, but I think it can and should be saved. I love how it looks and can't wait to get a V-drive on the water!

Thanks,
Eric

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj178/eball429/V-drive008.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj178/eball429/V-drive004.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj178/eball429/V-drive007.jpg
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj178/eball429/V-drive009.jpg

[RiverRacer]

Well, it's definitely a big project but I've seen worse that's been brought back to life and it is potential for a cool ski boat!.. If there is no HIN numbers on the hull anywhere it is a pre 72, looking at it I would say it's a 60's hull!...

[poncho]

several styling cues from different models there,the cutouts where youre arms would rest are also on my Stevens,is it wood bottom with fiberglass sides and deck that would get you into the later 60`s most likely,is there a name on the prop shaft log,cant help but think it was sold as a bare hull and rigged by the owner due to lack of bracing for the cav plate or sold as a ski boat but one nice thing its not a real deep hull could make a nice looking early hot rod,keep us posted you have a big project

[poncho]

now that i think about it sure resembles my buds 65 Stevens,take a look at (leadsledmerc) pics in the open discussion forum and see what you think

[RiverRacer]

That is definitely not a Stevens, look at the transom!..

[eball429]

I plan to crawl up under the dash tonight to see if I can find any type of I.D. information. I'll work on a more complete list of the hardware, but off the top of my head here's what it has: Casale drive unit (I think it's the in & out style), Nicson shaft log, Hall-Craft tach tube, Hall-Craft throttle pedal and Hall-Craft rudder assembly. I don't know the size of the prop, but I think it's stainless. There are also two skegs inline towards the middle of the hull (not sure I've seen that before). The engine mount is definitely homemade and I'd be really curious to find out what was in it (maybe a straight six). Once I open up the Casale drive I'll check the ratio unless someone can tell me what to look for as far as identification markings. When did Casale change from the big, boxy style drive to the style I have in this boat? If you google Diamond Custom Boats there's a gentleman with a webshots site and pictures of several different Diamond V-drives. Apparently the guys grandfather used to build the boats. I have contacted him and he told me what to look for on the older Diamonds, but he wasn't sure mine was a diamond. How will this thing handle with non-adjustable cavitation plates? What can I expect for a reasonable and safe top speed without cavitation plates? I was first thinking about installing a BBC that I have, but......I also have a 67 Cadillac 429 and wet logs that fit the engine. I'm thinking that would be a neat setup because of the boats age. Thanks for all the help and I'll keep you all posted when I get more info. Any comments are most appreciated!

Thanks,
Eric

[poncho]

Art,youre right about the transom,round corners that was my hesitation but the deck looks doggone similar (no surprise).Take a good look at what you have regardless of who built it and decide if this is what you want to get into,it`s gonna be consuming,thank god for the internet its saved alot of boats

[RiverRacer]

What is the budget, that determins everything!.. But the best thing you can do with that boat is clean it up restore it and use what hardware you have that's good, put the Cad in and use it as a ski boat, it's a 50mph boat at best but it is a cool classic!.. For gear ratio, just mark top and bottom shafts, turn top shaft one revolution and see where the bottom shaft ends up at, that will tell the percentage you have!..

[RiverRacer]

Art,youre right about the transom,round corners that was my hesitation but the deck looks doggone similar (no surprise)

That drop deal on the deck can be confusing since many MFG's used that style at one time!..

[eball429]

I pulled the drive out of the boat today and disassembled it. The gears are a 1.09 ratio and the bottom of the drive has part number 3448B66 stamped on it. The aluminum mounting plate had a 1.18 stamped on it so it may have come originally with a 1.18 gear set. The propeller is a 12 X 16.

What type of engine would work with this combination? Do you think the Casale drive is a 1966 unit?

Thanks,
Eric

[eball429]

The only part about the boat that worries me is the deck is in very bad condition. There is a crack down the center of the dash and the plywood former/support that goes under the dash will definitely need replaced. I think it sat upside down for a long time in a field and someone must have been really rough with the boat. The stringers look to be in pretty good shape, but I think they need re-glassed to the hull. I'm not afraid of a little extra work and have taken on bigger projects with cars and boats, but the hull is definitely the roughest I've dealt with. Structurally it seems pretty solid, but the deck will need to be strengthened or completely redone. How would you guys handle the issues with the deck and former needing replaced? Do I cut it out and start over or do I strengthen up what I already have? How do I decide if the stringers only need re-glassed to the hull or completely replaced?

Thanks Again,
Eric

[poncho]

eball,materials wise youre looking at a okay amount of money but a monster amount of labor,Art is dead on about using what you have,are you looking for a fast boat or a unique ski and family boat?

[eball429]

I could care less about fast; I want a cool looking ski boat! I have a 1971 Chris Craft XK22 that I went through a couple of years ago that is my main family boat. I'm a sucker for pretty looking classic boats. I've been into cars and drag racing for quite a while and I got tired of dumping so much money into them and not getting much back from them. It seems that the faster they go the less you drive them. I've switched to boats as my hobby because they are a little cheaper and simpler to restore (not as many parts). Plus all winter long you get to daydream about being on the lake :) I like doing paint and body work which is the biggest part of the job on a boat project. I've been looking for an excuse to use the 429 Cadillac in a boat and I think I've found it.

[RiverRacer]

It's a split case and gear selection is widely available so you can gear according to what you have now no biggie!. Who cares what year it is but if you're curious call Casale and give them the number they'll tell you what year it is!..

[RiverRacer]

The only part about the boat that worries me is the deck is in very bad condition. There is a crack down the center of the dash and the plywood former/support that goes under the dash will definitely need replaced. I think it sat upside down for a long time in a field and someone must have been really rough with the boat. The stringers look to be in pretty good shape, but I think they need re-glassed to the hull. I'm not afraid of a little extra work and have taken on bigger projects with cars and boats, but the hull is definitely the roughest I've dealt with. Structurally it seems pretty solid, but the deck will need to be strengthened or completely redone. How would you guys handle the issues with the deck and former needing replaced? Do I cut it out and start over or do I strengthen up what I already have? How do I decide if the stringers only need re-glassed to the hull or completely replaced?

Thanks Again,
Eric

Any delamination has to be removed and re glassed, and any supports that are broken needs to be re glassed!.. Any black spots on the stringers under the glass is rot and that needs to be fixed, also along the floor if they are pulling up then they need to be replaced!.. If you're into glass work then it's just a project, if you're not then it means a ton of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!.....

[poncho]

I really would like to see you go forward with this it is paint and bodywork to the max the glasswork will be the worst,there are very good boat builders on this board if you go forward you`ll be in good company

[eball429]

It sounds like it's time to kick the jet boat out of the garage and move the V-drive in to begin the project. I had to do quite a bit of glass work on my Chris Craft so it's not new to me, but I'll still be looking for advice with the stringers and deck repairs. I'm definitely a DIYer and like to everything possible on my own. It wouldn't be much of a hobby if you paid someone else to do it. I don't mind throwing a lot of labor at a project, but cringe at throwing a lot of money at a project when it will never be returned. Thanks for the support and I'll keep you updated on my progress.

[RiverRacer]

Well, shit can that ole ditch pump and get that boat in the garage then!. As far as a return on it don't even think about that, it's a hobby remember!....

[poncho]

Yea,no kidding! the return is pride in youre work,smiles brought to friends and family,PRICELESS but dollar wise not the best return

[RiverRacer]

Ya know, if you counted your hours you put into it and put a value of less than minimum wage, it would still scare the crap out of ya, LOL...

[AzDon]

The nose on that boat looks like a Rayson..... someone will be able to id that split-case Casale shortly..... Lack of adjustable cav hardware tells me it was a ski boat..

[RiverRacer]

And I'll lay odds that it came originally with a Top Loader v-drve!..

[eball429]

Well, shit can that ole ditch pump and get that boat in the garage then!. As far as a return on it don't even think about that, it's a hobby remember!....

That's about the funniest thing I've ever heard. I almost wet my pants at work when I read this post :D I think I'll hook the old "ditch pump" to a big block chevy and strap it under the house to help drain the sump when rains are heavy.

I definitely don't expect any type of monetary retrurn on the project. From my car experiences I'm tired of dumping a lot of money in engines. I think the stock Cad engine will make me happy in this boat.

Where's the best place to get gaskets and parts for Casale drives? This one has what I think is a two dog in/out mechanism and the shift fork and cover are missing. Is there much used stuff out there? How about parts sources for miscellaneous parts like drive couplers, shaft log seals and miscellaneous wearable drive items?

Will the 1.09 ratio and 12 x 16 prop work okay with stock 429 cad if the boat is used primarily for cruising and skiing?

Thanks again for everyone's support and comments!

[RiverRacer]

Well I'll be dipped, finally a good use for one of them things, LOL!.... For parts call J.J. 972 438 2277 he should have what you need!. For boat stuff, Rex and Glenwood have it all!..

[SnoC653]

I think I'll hook the old "ditch pump" to a big block chevy and strap it under the house to help drain the sump when rains are heavy.

:eek:

Don't do it. While the V Drive in the garage will help restore property values, having the "ditch pump" attatched to the house will drasticlly affect your property values to the point even two V Drives might not be able to help. If you need to help the sump pump, just get an old top loader v-drive, turn the pump motor upside down and run it through the v drive. At least V Drive parts add value where ever they are found. :D

Good luck on the project.

[RiverRacer]

That's some funny $hit there!...LOL..:D

[shooter2]

I just posted on you other thread and checked out these pics. That is an easy boat to get the deck off. The seam is right there. However it is not as shallow as a b-boat so it may be easier to get up into the hard to reach areas. But it will still be tough to put in wood and stringers and glass.

Brian

[RiverRacer]

Shouldn't be that hard to fix that one, pull the kickboard out and you get to the front pretty easy, otherwise you'd have to make a jig to support it if you took the deck off, that would be a big job!..

[eball429]

Because of the poor condition I have decided to remove the deck and rebuild it with it off. It will make stringer replacement easier and all of the necessary deck repairs much easier. I think the biggest hassle will be building a cradle for the boat. Any tips? I know that it's critical to have the areas under the stringers well supported and to cradle the hull so it can't spread out when the deck is removed. Am I missing anything here? Does anyone have an example of a good boat cradle?

Eric

[RiverRacer]

Well, usually the boat gets put back in the mold for that, but we know that ain't going to happen, LOL.. You're just going to heve to get creative on this one. Myself, I think I would turn the boat over to build it, be easier to fit it to the boat that way, then turn the cradle over and make sure it's on a perfectly flat and level surface, then turn the boat over and set it in the cradle!..

[eball429]

Here's a couple of picture of Diamond boats. These are the only boats that I can find that look like mine. What do you think?

http://thumb19.webshots.net/t/28/28/5/44/44/2476544440101969219uvTrkF_th.jpg (http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2476544440101969219uvTrkF)

http://thumb19.webshots.net/t/30/466/2/66/79/2208266790101969219NZCSof_th.jpg (http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2208266790101969219NZCSof)

[eball429]

Let's try them a little bigger this time.

http://inlinethumb49.webshots.com/40240/2208266790101969219S600x600Q85.jpg (http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2208266790101969219NZCSof)

http://inlinethumb22.webshots.com/34965/2476544440101969219S600x600Q85.jpg (http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2476544440101969219uvTrkF)

[harlan orrin]

When you get under the deck, check the top of the port stringer in front of the main bulkhead. If you find a metal dymo-label. 1 or 2 letters with 3 numbers, it could be a Rayson Craft. It could be a R C copy. Is it a 16', 17' or 18' boat??? The cav. plate turnbuckel setup was standard in the early
'60s.
Harlan Orrin

[SPUN1]

Shure looks like a Rayson Craft, might be mid-60's.

[eball429]

The only identification on the entire boat was found on the top of the port stringer when I removed it. It was a metal plate with G 54 stamped in it and could probably have been seen through the fiberglass from under the deck if I had looked hard enough and if the glass was cleaner. Is it a Rayson craft? Any idea on what year? How did the old Raysons ride?

Thanks,
Eric

[eball429]

From Bow tip to transom the boat is 17' 9"

Thanks for the help!!

[eball429]

It's confirmed. Ray DeFir confirmed the boat is a Rayson Craft. He didn't comment on the year, but said it was a hi free board Rayson flat bottom. I replied and asked him about the year and will let you know when I hear back. Could anyone give me any details about the Rayson boats? How do they ride, handle, ski, etc.?

Thanks,
Eric

[poncho]

I`ve never heard of a bad Rayson

[SPUN1]

It's confirmed. Ray DeFir confirmed the boat is a Rayson Craft. He didn't comment on the year, but said it was a hi free board Rayson flat bottom. I replied and asked him about the year and will let you know when I hear back. Could anyone give me any details about the Rayson boats? How do they ride, handle, ski, etc.?

Thanks,
Eric

eball429,
Did you ever find out the year of your Rayson?

[chrisandyoli]

About Ray DeFir http://www.raysoncraftboats.com/about.htm Rudy Ramos,More Than Rayson Craft Boats http://www.boatracingfacts.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-3068.html eyball429 this is a great post

[hm66Howard]

Cool links. Thanks Chris. :)