Proper Procedure for Launching a Flat?

[dry]

I know this is controversial, but with all the knowledge here i want your input on launching with full throttle and use of plate. I have a 2 pedal system and basically use the down pedal like releasing a clutch when taking off. I am looking for proper techniques for launching a flat as well as running the plate up when at speed. As most of you know i am very to new to this game so please feel free to educate me from all your wisdom.

Thanks:)

[gfinishline]

After setting up a boat for drag racing (not before) I want to leave the rope WOT with 50% down. This should burn the prop and carry the nose high about 75/100 feet. Once the boat passes the lights, it should start (picking up speed) leveling off and starting to drop (slowly). As the nose levels, start getting off the "down", and when it starts to drop, just slowly lift your foot up until it is 'hovering' over the down pedal. If the 'down' needs an EXTRA KICK, (durring all this) you need to move the prop, rebalance the boat. Just remember, "one hop" equals 1/10th of a second racing a 110/120 MPH boat. I'm talking an 11" or smaller two blade prop, nothing larger. The lighter the boat, the smaller the prop. The smaller the prop, the farther back it can go. The farther back the quicker all this takes place, and less down plate is used. Simple ain't it?

[warpt71]

You make it sound so easy lol Maybe Im just a chicken :D

[RiverRacer]

You make it sound so easy lol Maybe Im just a chicken :D

It is, what's the saying, "practice makes perfect"..:D

[warpt71]

It is, what's the saying, "practice makes perfect"..:D

Something like that! I know Im chicken though lol I just dont know what to expect and it all happens FAST. Im not afraid to run it hard, just not comfortable launching it hard. Seat time is the other saying!

[gfinishline]

Ryan, look at Glen's boat. Always been very quick. We did the bottom and it became quicker and more easy to drive under all conditions.(chop/wind) Most play boat guys don't realize that the quick boats "burn" the prop 200/300 feet out of the gate. Like a 4000 converter in a street car, not much cruising fun until you "step on it hard". "Big props and low gears" were never easy to drive, why work harder than you need to? A little more gear and a little smaller diameter will go a long way to better control. I've seen you "drive it out" and YOU AIN'T SLOW!

[warpt71]

Ryan, look at Glen's boat. Always been very quick. We did the bottom and it became quicker and more easy to drive under all conditions.(chop/wind) Most play boat guys don't realize that the quick boats "burn" the prop 200/300 feet out of the gate. Like a 4000 converter in a street car, not much cruising fun until you "step on it hard". "Big props and low gears" were never easy to drive, why work harder than you need to? A little more gear and a little smaller diameter will go a long way to better control. I've seen you "drive it out" and YOU AIN'T SLOW!

Glen's boat is the best ride I have ever had! I just talked to Josh Monday and he says that it will be back together for Oct.

http://www.v-driveboat.com/vweb/attachment.php?attachmentid=685&stc=1&d=1215663289

My Hondo has 12's in the box and I want to say like a 10 and 3/4" prop? I really don't recal. The boat is a blast to drive and thats what counts, I have no desire to race. Well, other than Dad, he found out it wasn't slow too. Its easy enough to hammer once on a roll, just don't really like the feeling from a dead stop or idle.

[RiverRacer]

Something like that! I know Im chicken though lol I just dont know what to expect and it all happens FAST. Im not afraid to run it hard, just not comfortable launching it hard. Seat time is the other saying!

Ryan, you gotta practice and get the feel of your boat it will tell you what it wants, start with hard down and move up gradually no biggie it will tell you when you reached the optimum!..

[warpt71]

Yeah I aint sweattin it, its all fun!!!

[RiverRacer]

Yeah I aint sweattin it, its all fun!!!

Yes it is!..:D

[andrew88]

does putting a smaller prop on have almost the same effect as gearing it down??

[dry]

So 50% down from a standing launch should not get me in any trouble? Right! I am just trying to stay out of trouble from a standing start point of view, while trying to learn this boat.........I am not drag racing just wanting to nail this sucker without getting it out of sorts.........I understand the seat time thing and all just trying to find out what to expect when i nail it...........prop is 2 blade 11x15 with 12's

[Terrible toy]

Opinions are like belly buttons, everyone has one. Here's mine. First of all there is a world of difference between driving a ski flat and a race flat. The fastest ski boat I ever had was a high 80 mph Charger. It didn't even have peddles, just a handle with a locking pin. It was not hard to drive out of the gate and I could set it and forget it. Most hot lake boats are nose heavy and don't need a lot of plate at launch. Now the Brendellas, Hondos and Coles I drove in racing were a totally different animal. With the exception of the first Brendella I never used anything but a single pedal. Much safer to have your foot on the pedal when you need to use it. My attitude indicator was the relationship between the nose and the horizon and seat of the pants feel. In a rolling start I would, at full throttle, catch the nose with the plate at about 10 to 15 degrees above the horizon. That would allow the boat to free up quickly, then squeeze it down to about 5 degrees and start rolling out of the plate until about 3 or 4 hundred feet down track where it would be on the stop. Of course every boat is a little different so we would always take a new boat to Lake Ming on Thursdays (KCBC would come out with a tow boat and let you test) and practice, practice practice, until I was comfortable with my driving.

[dry]

Ok, that is the kind of information i was looking for and i appreciate it! I am just trying to still mentally equate the plate with the trim/pad relations on my Allison O/B that i am used to driving but then you actually had to "drive it" over 80 to stay on pad. The flat bottom appears to be only relations between the plate angle=friction + or - and what ever the proper bow attitude is and not really any "driving meaning steering (sawing the wheel) because your not balancing left to right and front to back on a 4-6" pad". The flat bottom you are only balancing front to back meaning between the prop tips and the plate, if my mental comparison is correct then how much flying the bow or getting the boat free is to much? less water friction = more speed so you still have to lift the hull out of the water which means less plate drag or none at all correct?

[Retired Flatbottom Racer]

Ok, that is the kind of information i was looking for and i appreciate it! I am just trying to still mentally equate the plate with the trim/pad relations on my Allison O/B that i am used to driving but then you actually had to "drive it" over 80 to stay on pad. The flat bottom appears to be only relations between the plate angle=friction + or - and what ever the proper bow attitude is and not really any "driving meaning steering (sawing the wheel) because your not balancing left to right and front to back on a 4-6" pad". The flat bottom you are only balancing front to back meaning between the prop tips and the plate, if my mental comparison is correct then how much flying the bow or getting the boat free is to much? less water friction = more speed so you still have to lift the hull out of the water which means less plate drag or none at all correct?

You will have a lot better understanding of what it takes once you get it WET! :D
Seriously it is a seat of the pants feel that you will somewhat have to learn for yourself. Check this out. Lots of different ways to lanuch one depending on the horsepower and boat combination. See you soon! :D
http://dragboatalley.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/326.html

[George1301]

I sit here every day in my office going over these notes... Saw this topic, and had to jump in..! I amin the same situation.... Not scared of it, but... was hurt really bad when a friend of mine, Bill Morris "nosed" his with me on board.... 14 months of hospital for me...
I will never leave these boats... they are a blast..!
Mine is a Aquacraft (Shark I think ) built with a 8-71, Blown 468BBC... Gears...unknown,
prop is a 11-3/8 x 15... two-ear... All I have is the handle and pin setup... no pedals as of yet. Same want to learn, ( Hole Starts ).... Should I get it onto "set" before really
pulling the trigger... What should I look for besides the "seat of the pants feel"..?
I did find that the last time out it seemed to "launch" with two notches on the plate from neutral...?

Geo

[Terrible toy]

Ok, that is the kind of information i was looking for and i appreciate it! I am just trying to still mentally equate the plate with the trim/pad relations on my Allison O/B that i am used to driving but then you actually had to "drive it" over 80 to stay on pad. The flat bottom appears to be only relations between the plate angle=friction + or - and what ever the proper bow attitude is and not really any "driving meaning steering (sawing the wheel) because your not balancing left to right and front to back on a 4-6" pad". The flat bottom you are only balancing front to back meaning between the prop tips and the plate, if my mental comparison is correct then how much flying the bow or getting the boat free is to much? less water friction = more speed so you still have to lift the hull out of the water which means less plate drag or none at all correct?

Hey have fun, start out driving the thing out at half throttle and work your way up to "hammer and hope" starts. Just kidding about the hope thing. The steps will let you know how violent a deal you've got without getting a face full of deck if the thing is a real monster.:eek: Make sure the plate is adjusted correctly and all the hardware is in good shape.

You're right about the less wetted area meaning more speed, but you don't want zero drag on the plate, that would mean it's out of the water and bad things can happen then in a flat. A perfect ride for me would be about a 5 degree nose up attitude with the fin out, the chines dry to the back and the center plate (in a runner bottom) wet to near the front of the engine. Let us know how things go with your new toy.

[dry]

You will have a lot better understanding of what it takes once you get it WET! :D
Seriously it is a seat of the pants feel that you will somewhat have to learn for yourself. See you soon! :D
http://dragboatalley.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/326.html

Well i believe you are RIGHT and WET is the Operative keyword here, YOU and I will be getting it WET together real soon.........I just love it when i am trusted enough to be able to Hammer down with a Veteran onboard, kind of like a guardian angel with clipped wings, if things get hairy neither one of us will need any wings to fly!!:eek::D

[Retired Flatbottom Racer]

Well i believe you are RIGHT and WET is the Operative keyword here, YOU and I will be getting it WET together real soon.........I just love it when i am trusted enough to be able to Hammer down with a Veteran onboard, kind of like a guardian angel with clipped wings, if things get hairy neither one of us will need any wings to fly!!:eek::D

Let me know when. I will be making a trip to Rocky Point either Sat. or Sun. morning. I need to mow my place down there so let me know which day works best for you. I will also talk to my friends with the yellow canyon in the morning and see if he is going either day. :cool:

[RiverRacer]

So 50% down from a standing launch should not get me in any trouble? Right! I am just trying to stay out of trouble from a standing start point of view, while trying to learn this boat.........I am not drag racing just wanting to nail this sucker without getting it out of sorts.........I understand the seat time thing and all just trying to find out what to expect when i nail it...........prop is 2 blade 11x15 with 12's

There are no two boats that are alike all are unique, nobody can tell you exactly what to do because they don't know "YOUR" boat and your combination, not to mention weather the combination is right or not to begin with, so all you can do is start slow and feel it out, start out by just cruising and move the pedal and see what the effects are it will come to you, first time you stand on it plate it all the way down and see what happens and go from there, the boat will tell you what it needs!..

[gfinishline]

"After setting up a boat for drag racing" (not before) Was where I opened, and I guess I was too subtle in my words. "Andrew 88" NO! It is not at all like 'gearing down'. "Dry" the kind of information you really need is "what your boat has for parts" and will those parts allow you to do FULL THROTTLE STARTS? Nothing said here can compare with SEAT TIME!!! I was just offering what "I" feel is the quickest way to "launch a flatbottom". I offered because I've built/rigged boats that always launched like that, and they set records along with winning championships. I was saying, "set your boat up FIRST and you will launch like this". Prop diameter (to me) is like a soft/ hard conveter in a race car. I want to run the smallest prop that will maintain gross weight acceleration over 1320'. This prop loading is controled by the amount of torque (gears) at the prop VS what the motor has over it's power band, thus you create the "load" for your motor within it's power band. I personally don't separate "Lake racers" and Real racers" as far as set up goes. NOW I too know that 1/8th mile VS 1/4 mile are different animals. (we adjust) If you want to "pull skiiers" just change your prop! "Dry" my "50% down is for a WELL SET UP BOAT!!! Is your's ready to go? Who set it up? Have you practiced with that set up? I stated 11" props and less, well ALL of the boats that I've set up in the past 20 years have had props smaller than 11". I feel that if you have an older set up, 11" + prop and low gears, you are fighting for control of your boat at ALL speeds. These points are just my opinions, and you will still need to "get wet" and experiment with your boat. If any of you know Rod Blinzler, you know that I set up his 18' 8" Kurtus runner, (very heavy boat) and it went 7.70's at 135 MPH ON GAS with a 482" Chevy! If that ain't quick enough for the speed, I'm way wrong on my launch instructions. Sorry to have taken your time. "I get typing and it just comes out".

[dry]

"I feel that if you have an older set up, 11" + prop and low gears, you are fighting for control of your boat at ALL speeds. These points are just my opinions,

Well good news we are going to find out on Saturday!! (Retired Flat Bottom Racer) has volunteered once again to meet me at the lake if its not raining and i am going to meet up with him this weekend. So i guess we will find out if it is setup anywhere close to proper and what needs to be done from here. So Let the FUN begin:eek:

[RiverRacer]

Well good news we are going to find out on Saturday!! (Retired Flat Bottom Racer) has volunteered once again to meet me at the lake if its not raining and i am going to meet up with him this weekend. So i guess we will find out if it is setup anywhere close to proper and what needs to be done from here. So Let the FUN begin:eek:

Good luck on the test session, have fun and most of all be safe!...:cool:

[Terrible toy]

Well good news we are going to find out on Saturday!! (Retired Flat Bottom Racer) has volunteered once again to meet me at the lake if its not raining and i am going to meet up with him this weekend. So i guess we will find out if it is setup anywhere close to proper and what needs to be done from here. So Let the FUN begin:eek:

You're not going to let a little rain stop you?:D It's fun in the rain, I always wore an open face helmet in boats, ran twice when it rained...I can verify that raindrops get real heavy at speed.:D

[RiverRacer]

I can verify that raindrops get real heavy at speed.:D

Heavy, you kiddin them suckas turn into gravel,LOL..:D

[Terrible toy]

Heavy, you kiddin them suckas turn into gravel,LOL..:D

Art, see you've been there too. Actually double Ought shot might be a better analogy.:eek: Were your experiences at Bakerspatch?

[gfinishline]

Bakersfield November in the rail, is more like NAILS in the cold misty air. Still don't like those capsules! Even if they were heated!

[raysoninoz]

Hey Dry, With all these 'good ole boys' going along it may be worth taking a video camera along to film some of the action. Make a mental note of what you are doing or did and have someone film it. Although when we did that everyone suggested that I put the name on the bottom of the boat cause it got so high, although it didn't feel like it from the driver's seat and I was surprised when I saw the video.:eek: So I went back out and had another go trying something different. BUT remember make one change only each time!
Have a safe but fun day:D
Cheers

[RiverRacer]

Art, see you've been there too. Actually double Ought shot might be a better analogy.:eek: Were your experiences at Bakerspatch?

Only ran Bako a few times weather was nice, got nailed at the river a few times, and of course it couldn't be when it was in July at 110, but in April when it's in the 50's, stings even worse when it's cold!.LOL..