Fuel shut off's?

[warpt71]

I didn't want to jack anyone’s thread any farther so......................

For those that run MFI, What do you use for a shut off and where have you mounted it???

I have a "T-handle" that pushes a 33-c style cable and it was previously mounted in the center of the dash. I ask 'cause it seemed it would have bent over if not pushed exactly strait :eek:

[RiverRacer]

A three way shut off mounted on the pump outlet to the barrel valve, for the cable no different than a throttle cable just have to adjust it!..

[warpt71]

Ok, re-phrase, just what has been used and is available to push the cable connected to the shut-off closed. Should have been more specific lol

[Terrible toy]

I didn't want to jack anyone’s thread any farther so......................

For those that run MFI, What do you use for a shut off and where have you mounted it???

I have a "T-handle" that pushes a 33-c style cable and it was previously mounted in the center of the dash. I ask 'cause it seemed it would have bent over if not pushed exactly strait :eek:

Maybe this will help. For fuel injection shutoff cables I've always used Cablecraft push pull controls. The last phone number I have for them is 253 475 1080, they are in Washington state.

The latest cable I bought from them was for a drag car. It was one of their twist lock Tee handles. The handle locks with a quarter turn so it won't vibrate closed. On drag boats with FI I used the micro adjust style. It has a thumb release lock for full on and off and also a verneer adjustment like an aircraft throttle. I used that fine adjustment to lean out the motor when I was warming it up on the rope. The cables they come with are much more flexable then Morse cables.

As for mounting, in the car I made a split collar bracket that I mounted on the bottom of the steering column. It has a butter fly wheel so it's not in the way of hitting the shutoff. In boats I just mounted them in the dash to the right of the steering. The exception was a TAD where the fuel shutoff is a lever on the brake handle.

Hope that was what you were asking...Bill

[warpt71]

Yeah that helps Bill, thanks!

The boat was set up w/ a T handle at the end of a Morse. It was mounted dead center of the dash and I always thought that if for some reason it got pushed in in a hurry that there could be the possability of bending it. All this talk of FI had just brought up old thoughts of "how to put it back together" Im gonna check to see if I have a good picture of the setup.

[warpt71]

Best I got, it just seems in an akward place

[Terrible toy]

Never had any problems bending the shut off so it wouldn't function, not saying it couldn't happen in a extra exciting situation. A lot of sprint car guys use the cables I mentioned and it doesn't get much more exciting then that.:D

I forgot another source (I believe they are the same or similar) it's California Push-Pull at 510 352 4061

Anyway, good luck with the project and remember to post some pics please.

[warpt71]

10-4 on the pictures! As of right now its just a mantel piece till work picks up.

[Terrible toy]

Best I got, it just seems in an akward place

Does seem a bit far away. Could see some side loads and stick a bit, if you were in a hurry.

Of course, in boats you're not clicking the engine right after the lights, like in a car, so a boat shut off doesn't see as much abuse.

[RiverRacer]

I've always used one of these, quick shut off and no flexing!..

Morse Vernier (http://www.teleflexmorse.com/documents/VernierControls.pdf)

[cjbuilder1]

Morse/Cablecraft/& Felstead are all top quality cables. Cablecraft and Felstead distributors can make them up down to the 1/4" or less length and for sure more flexable than Morse. I'm rigging a foot/hand throttle combination now with our local Cablecraft folks. If both ends are hard mounted you can push 50+lbs with the small cables. Pull is about 90 lbs

[wagspe208]

Are you looking for a "morse cable"?
If so, any large marine dealer will have several lengths. They are also used in older diesel engines for a shutoff for the pump. Also, tractors use them to engate the PTO. So, marine, big truck, or tractor supply places. Check you local listings. LOL
Wags

[BradP]

I have a Morse cable and T handle on the v-drive plate, wanted to put it on the dash but I'm "overgauged".

Dash mount prevents brain farts on startup.:D

[shooter2]

I never had a cable attached to mine in my open boat, it was close enough to me to reach around and shut it off. However in the capsule boat that I am going to drive we have a morse cable on my right side that operates it. It seems easy enough to operate. The key to me would seem to be the right cable length, no tight bends. Just as an aside to this cable stuff my overide handle is now a push/pull lever that has the 1/4 turn lock as was discussed in an earlier thread. This is a very beefy cable and could be used as a fuel shut off without a problem. I also like the fact that it locks, that may be a benefit or may not be, depends on the panic situation. But not to look too dumb here but if you are in a panic than just pull the kill switch. I am sure everybody has one of them installed PROPERLY in there boat dont they????

Brian

[pwderman]

I never had a cable attached to mine in my open boat, it was close enough to me to reach around and shut it off. However in the capsule boat that I am going to drive we have a morse cable on my right side that operates it. It seems easy enough to operate. The key to me would seem to be the right cable length, no tight bends. Just as an aside to this cable stuff my overide handle is now a push/pull lever that has the 1/4 turn lock as was discussed in an earlier thread. This is a very beefy cable and could be used as a fuel shut off without a problem. I also like the fact that it locks, that may be a benefit or may not be, depends on the panic situation. But not to look too dumb here but if you are in a panic than just pull the kill switch. I am sure everybody has one of them installed PROPERLY in there boat dont they????

Brian

Depending on the application I've seen the kill switch not work. I used to have a video of I think it was UFH at Fireturd years ago that went off the end of the course hit the beach and kited over the road and hit the high lines and exploded. Pretty tense video as the driver had trouble getting out and at the time nobody knew if he did. He said he pulled the kill switch but you really don't know for sure. I don't remember the name of the boat or driver but I do remember the name of the replacment boat" High Line Express".:eek:

I've seen a top fuel car blow the mag out and keep running. I realize it's a different application but it would seem both a fuel shut off and a properly installed kill switch is a good idea in most boats. IMHO..:eek: :eek:

[Terrible toy]

[QUOTE= I used to have a video of I think it was UFH at Fireturd years ago that went off the end of the course hit the beach and kited over the road and hit the high lines and exploded. Pretty tense video as the driver had trouble getting out and at the time nobody knew if he did. He said he pulled the kill switch but you really don't know for sure. I don't remember the name of the boat or driver but I do remember the name of the replacment boat" High Line Express".:eek:
:[/QUOTE]

Jon, I was on the holding rope next to run and saw that whole pass from dead astern. It was a qualifying run for Comp Hydro. The guy's name was Sonny Moon, out of Louisiana, and yes, that's the name he put on his new boat.

He bailed out of the boat but I didn't see him jump, so was more then worried when that hydro launched about 100 feet in the air and came down through those powerlines. Giant sparks, huge ball of fire, and pieces flying everywhere.

[RiverRacer]

Depending on the application I've seen the kill switch not work. I used to have a video of I think it was UFH at Fireturd years ago that went off the end of the course hit the beach and kited over the road and hit the high lines and exploded. Pretty tense video as the driver had trouble getting out and at the time nobody knew if he did. He said he pulled the kill switch but you really don't know for sure. I don't remember the name of the boat or driver but I do remember the name of the replacment boat" High Line Express".:eek:

I've seen a top fuel car blow the mag out and keep running. I realize it's a different application but it would seem both a fuel shut off and a properly installed kill switch is a good idea in most boats. IMHO..:eek: :eek:

I don't know how it is now but back in the day any fuel boat had a kill switch and a fuel shutoff pin hooked up to your jacket, if you left both were shut off instantly!... With the amount of heat they put out, they will ignite on their own as long as there is fuel present without any help from the ignition, that's why the need to shut the fuel off at the same time!..

[shooter2]

You guys are right, I stand corrected. After reading your story it reminded me of 2 that I have. Both involve the same boat, Can Am 93 owned by Peter Duff. This was one of Bob or Richard Goettels boats, Epidemic I think. The first story was a broken ground wire so then the mag wouldn't shut off. Beached the boat, 1 menkens propellor, 1 rudder and 1 prop shaft all to the garbage. We corrected that by running 2 ground wires. I am no wiring genius at all but it was my idea. Typical of many installations it was a crimp on connector. The next year we re-wired the whole thing properly. The second time was at a race in Kingston NY. Peter was battling hard for the lead got tossed out of the boat. However as many of us do, he had a long kill switch tether, it got caught on the overide handle and broke. The boat stayed running and we are all stopped on the course. The boat is doing circles and i think to myself "hey I can shut that thing off" but the realize that I am sitting still and it is moving. I think that stunt only works in the movies. Now his boat is getting closer to me in my boat, so now I am fumbling for my cap to get my boat re started and I get it going just in time so as not to get hit. They finally let it ram a fire boat and Peter has climbed from the rescue boat to the fire boat and now to his boat and shuts it off. So i guess what I am trying to say here is maybe the spring loaded fuel shut off from Kinsler may be a good idea. Doubt you have time to hit the fuel shut off on the way out, I know that from experience. All I remember thinking was oh f..k this is going to hurt as I am on my way out. Play safe.

Brian

[RiverRacer]

I never had a cable attached to mine in my open boat, it was close enough to me to reach around and shut it off. However in the capsule boat that I am going to drive we have a morse cable on my right side that operates it. It seems easy enough to operate. The key to me would seem to be the right cable length, no tight bends. Just as an aside to this cable stuff my overide handle is now a push/pull lever that has the 1/4 turn lock as was discussed in an earlier thread. This is a very beefy cable and could be used as a fuel shut off without a problem. I also like the fact that it locks, that may be a benefit or may not be, depends on the panic situation. But not to look too dumb here but if you are in a panic than just pull the kill switch. I am sure everybody has one of them installed PROPERLY in there boat dont they????

Brian

Yep, all I had in my B boat was an over/under spring on the shutoff, just reached around and shut it off, worked great!...

[warpt71]

Yep, all I had in my B boat was an over/under spring on the shutoff, just reached around and shut it off, worked great!...

Hey guys!!! My motor is in the right way :D :D :D flywheel forward!!! I can't very well just reach around and "flip the switch" lol

Thanks for all the replies, I now know that there is a lot more out there than I had originaly suspected.

[RiverRacer]

Hey guys!!! My motor is in the right way :D :D flywheel forward!!!

Sorry to hear you're a backwards dude, LOL...:D:D

[shooter2]

you can mount the fuel shut off anywhere between the pump and barrel valve. The closer the better though as it has less fuel to use before shutting it off. Kinsler also has a 3 way shut off valve that allows you to mount it right to the pump. Not ideal, but....

Brian

[warpt71]

Very true but still, there would be no way to reach that far back.

[warpt71]

Sorry to hear you're a backwards dude, LOL...:D:D

Art, you are just jealous!!!!!

[RiverRacer]

you can mount the fuel shut off anywhere between the pump and barrel valve. The closer the better though as it has less fuel to use before shutting it off. Kinsler also has a 3 way shut off valve that allows you to mount it right to the pump. Not ideal, but....

Brian

Mine is on the pump, well not exactly I have fuel block there but same thing, and it's perfect, I also have an "easy start" valve on the shut off that prevent fuel from draining back from the nozzles when you close the shut off!..

[RiverRacer]

Art, you are just jealous!!!!!

Yeah right, LMAO!...:D:D

[shooter2]

any pics of that Art? I noticed in a pic that you had of the motor plates you had a mechanical fuel pump plumbed into some sort of long can. Is this some sort of pressurized inlet type of thing?

Brian

[warpt71]

Just a scarry picture not my work!!!

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll312/warpt71/00000010.jpg?t=1212639726
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll312/warpt71/00000009.jpg?t=1212639795

[RiverRacer]

Just a scarry picture not my work!!!

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll312/warpt71/00000010.jpg?t=1212639726
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll312/warpt71/00000009.jpg?t=1212639795

Holy shit howdy, is that hard on the eyes or what LOL, WTF is all that all about did you design that????..:eek::D

[shooter2]

Now I know I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but man that seems like alot of lines. What the hell are they for???

Brian

[warpt71]

Holy shit howdy, is that hard on the eyes or what LOL, WTF is all that all about did you design that????..:eek::D

Read the top Art! NOT MY WORK lol

[tunnelrunner]

Jeeze Louise!.... someone at Aeroquip fittings retired on that setup!..lol:D:D

[shooter2]

Jeeze Louise!.... someone at Aeroquip fittings retired on that setup!..lol:D:D

I figured he had alot of extra hose that he must have got for free. lol

Brian

[warpt71]

What are they all for? Well lets see, All the lines going up and self explanitory right?

There are 2 that go down, the one that looks like a piece of vacume line is the fuel preasure line that ran up to the dash. The other one was hooked to an electric fuel pump to prime the system. I never even tried to run this set-up, I knew it was too complicated lol

[RiverRacer]

any pics of that Art? I noticed in a pic that you had of the motor plates you had a mechanical fuel pump plumbed into some sort of long can. Is this some sort of pressurized inlet type of thing?

Brian

Nope, no pressure deal just an extention of of the fuel cell since it was below the pump, I used a mechanical pump to feed it and it had a return line back to the cell, the injector pump fed off the surge tank and all returns went to the surge tank, super simple and reliable!.. Now if I would have had stack tanks where the fuel level is always above the pump, I wouldn't need a surge tank!..

[tunnelrunner]

Piss all the electric priming pump and gauge lines off and fit an Ezi start valve...just stops the system bleeding back... Art uses one I think... LOTS simpler and safer than the squirty bottle..lol

[RiverRacer]

Read the top Art! NOT MY WORK lol

I know, just had to bust your balls on it!..:D:D

[shooter2]

IMHO all you really need is a main bypass and a secondary. You can also put in a jet selector, but I prefer the quick disconnect. And you could also put in a diaphram type secondary if you really want to split hairs. So that is 4 lines max. but 2 is much cleaner. Check out Kinsler's preferred plumbing in there manual, simple and clean.

Brian

[RiverRacer]

What are they all for? Well lets see, All the lines going up and self explanitory right?

There are 2 that go down, the one that looks like a piece of vacume line is the fuel preasure line that ran up to the dash. The other one was hooked to an electric fuel pump to prime the system. I never even tried to run this set-up, I knew it was too complicated lol

Sounds good to me, LOL..:D:D

[RiverRacer]

Piss all the electric priming pump and gauge lines off and fit an Ezi start valve...just stops the system bleeding back... Art uses one I think... LOTS simpler and safer than the squirty bottle..lol

Yep I got one and it works, don't need no stinkin squirt bottle!..:D

[shooter2]

Nope, no pressure deal just an extention of of the fuel cell since it was below the pump, I used a mechanical pump to feed it and it had a return line back to the cell, the injector pump fed off the surge tank and all returns went to the surge tank, super simple and reliable!.. Now if I would have had stack tanks where the fuel level is always above the pump, I wouldn't need a surge tank!..

Cool idea. Hmmm my 75 boat had a very low mounted fuel cell in it, always started but.......... I am going to have to go back and look at that pic closer.

Brian

[warpt71]

I know that the sys. could be simplified but if you really think about it everythin there had its purpose? I was told it worked well and my dad actually drove it. Said it was no big deal.

It only had 2 by-pass's. This was put together in the early 80's so............

[shooter2]

I know that the sys. could be simplified but if you really think about it everythin there had its purpose? I was told it worked well and my dad actually drove it. Said it was no big deal.

It only had 2 by-pass's. This was put together in the early 80's so............

Yes I remember the fist time I saw an injection system it had alot of lines as well, even today I know a few people who really complicate there systems beyond what they need to be.

Brian

[RiverRacer]

Yes I remember the fist time I saw an injection system it had alot of lines as well, even today I know a few people who really complicate there systems beyond what they need to be.

Brian

That's only because they don't understand the system(I remember being in the same situation)and you automatically think it's complicated and it screws your head up and that's the whole problem, this shit is so simple it shouldn't work but it does, once you get down to this level it becomes a piece a cake!..

[shooter2]

Ok here may be a dumb question about that surge tank system. I am assuming the plumbing goes like this. From the tank to the mechanical pump, then to the surge tank, then the injection pump gets it from the tank. If this is right does the mechaincal pump not cause a restiction to the injection pump?

Brian

[hydroguy]

Art,

Where do you get the ezi start valves at? This can't be any more than a check valve right?

[RiverRacer]

Ok here may be a dumb question about that surge tank system. I am assuming the plumbing goes like this. From the tank to the mechanical pump, then to the surge tank, then the injection pump gets it from the tank. If this is right does the mechaincal pump not cause a restiction to the injection pump?

Brian

No, it don't have anything to do with the injector pump, all it does is fill the tank, just consider it as the main tank!...

[RiverRacer]

Art,

Where do you get the ezi start valves at?

Ken Lowe from down under, just type in his name and his site will come up!..

[shooter2]

No, it don't have anything to do with the injector pump, all it does is fill the tank, just consider it as the main tank!...

Ok I see, and the mechanical pump keeps the surge tank filled fast enough so not to run out of fuel?. That is a slick idea.

Brian

[tunnelrunner]

Brian,
you run your fuel bypass back to the surge tank, not your main tank, so the pump never starves. Im guessing Art then has an overflow from the surge tank to his main tank.

[shooter2]

Now that I have seen it it is so simple that it confused me. Is this a common set up? In my boat I ran an 11 gallon fuel cell. It fit very nicely between the strut brace, the stringers and the back of the boat. But if I was having a good heat then I would run out of fuel on the last lap in the last corner. Bought a bigger blank cell, but never put it in. I bet that surge tank would have cured the problem.

Brian

[RiverRacer]

Ok I see, and the mechanical pump keeps the surge tank filled fast enough so not to run out of fuel?. That is a slick idea.

Brian

Here ya go Brian, as you can see the cell sits low, even when topped off the fuel was barely at the pump. Now you can see the line from the mechanical pump(stock street type)to just below the top of the tank, that is the fuel level, notice how high it is. You can't see it but directly opposite the fill line at the same level is a return line to the cell, fuel will not go any higher and also there's no need for a vent since it vents to the cell making the surge tank part of the main tank, between the mechanical pump and returns you'll never drain the surge tank. The tank is actually a piece of injector stack and it holds 3 1/2qrts. It's realy a no brainer and it works, once the system is wet you can let it sit over night and it fires up with the touch of the button!.. BTW, the cell is 22gals that made it K boat ready!..:D

http://www.v-driveboat.com/vweb/attachment.php?attachmentid=451&stc=1&d=1212676928

[Terrible toy]

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll317/terribletoy/Shooter.jpgNow that I have seen it it is so simple that it confused me. Is this a common set up? In my boat I ran an 11 gallon fuel cell. It fit very nicely between the strut brace, the stringers and the back of the boat. But if I was having a good heat then I would run out of fuel on the last lap in the last corner. Bought a bigger blank cell, but never put it in. I bet that surge tank would have cured the problem.

Brian

Alright, enough of the circluclars complaining about running out of fuel and starving engines... leave it to a drag boater to come up with the perfect solution.:D

[warpt71]

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll317/terribletoy/Shooter.jpg

Alright, enough of the circluclars complaining about running out of fuel and starving engines... leave it to a drag boater to come up with the perfect solution.:D

That right there is PRICELESS!!!!! I love it and whats wrong w/ dragracers anyway????

[RiverRacer]

Oh man that is awesome, I saved this one!..:cool::D

[shooter2]

I am honoured. That is incredible. I love it. Now I wonder how big I can make it. I am going to put that up in the race trailer for sure.

Thanks Brian