460 Stroker Build for the Sanger ?

[Mr72Sanger1710]

Contemplating Building a 460 Stroker for the Sanger, need help on what to build basically want a H2O Hot Rod will just ride around and pull the kids on ski's or a tube. Would love to build a blown motor but after reading what you guys discussed it sounds like alot of headache to keep running . So do I build a Tunnel and 2 Fours or go with Injection or Hi Rise and where do I want the Power range ( RPM's and HP ) for what I want to use the boat for. Probably a dumb question but I really dont know much yet. Thanks in Advance Rob

[Mr72Sanger1710]

Talking to an engine Builder he wants to know what I want? I am not sure . is a blown gas motor that much of a headache? they look cool. I originally thought i would put a small block in someone said to small. OK but what then should I be looking at for horsepower? and what RPM range do these boats like to run in Thanks Again Rob

[058]

I'll take a shot at this since no one else will....For your intended application I would stay with carbs and gas but it would help alot to know what your budget is for this project. If you have unlimited funds then the sky is the limit but if you are like most of us here that has a other things that consume money then it would help to have a budget idea of what you have to work with. Next it will help to know what basic parts you have now such as block, heads etc or will this be included in your budget? Also what about the boat, I assume you are working with a 72 Sanger, is that a flat or a runner bottom? What gears and prop do you have? is the underwater gear up to the task of handling the HP a well built stroker is capable of putting out? Lots of questions that need lots of honest answers.

[Terrible toy]

Contemplating Building a 460 Stroker for the Sanger, need help on what to build basically want a H2O Hot Rod will just ride around and pull the kids on ski's or a tube. Would love to build a blown motor but after reading what you guys discussed it sounds like alot of headache to keep running . So do I build a Tunnel and 2 Fours or go with Injection or Hi Rise and where do I want the Power range ( RPM's and HP ) for what I want to use the boat for. Probably a dumb question but I really dont know much yet. Thanks in Advance Rob

There are no dumb questions here at v drive .com Rob, except for mine.:D

You've asked one of those "how long is a piece of string" questions. You'll have to consult your hassle/benefit ratio meter to decide what you can live with. 058 is right about you making an honest assessment of your boat's capabilities. Pulling kids on tubes with a stroked, blown and injected engine with a lot of overlap would be at one end of the h/b ratio. I've seen it done though.

Which ever way you decide to go, lot's of people here have built all kinds of mild to wild stuff and will be more then happy to give you some help.

TT

[Mr72Sanger1710]

THANK YOU!! 058 and TT
It sounds like a blown motor although I think they look cool it would be a waste of money. It is the Sanger its a Flat Bottom . Starting with a hull steering and nicson underwater gear all stock stuff. I have the 460 stock would like to go 514 stroker, looks like I could get 550 HP pretty easy is that enough power? would like to pull the kids about 25-30MPH with a little getty up left over for some ME FUN. not sure what kind of speed I would get with 550HP. I have no prop, shaft or Gear box yet. Im guessing a casalle, seams to be the favorite? Is RPM determined by the gear box? Thinking of building the 460 in the 2500-6300 RPM Range is that about right. as I understand you are either in or out of gear with no reverse is that correct? as to budget maybe 6-8G on Motor over a couple of years. I just got the Bellhousing and Believe I have a lead on the back motor plate and a new timing cover with the cam drive hole have lots of parts to get. Just want to build one nice dependable ride so I am trying to do my homework first Thanks Rob

[058]

Well now.... right up my alley. First, you can make 550 hp quite easily with the 460, a 11 to 1 c/r, decent cam [to be determined when you choose a cyl. head] Decent pair of heads [there are many to choose from], tunnel ram using 2 carbs...leave the 1-4bbl T/R alone, they don't work well. If you want to run a single carb get the Victor manifold and a 1050 Dom. At minimum don't run anything smaller than a 850 Holley. Fords love airflow. Good ignition and good header should get you what you want. If you want to do a stroker the easiest deal is a 4.39" bore and a 4.300" stroke makes a 521 or do the 4.44" bore and the 4.15" crank makes a 514. Use a 6.700 or a 6.800" rod. I don't like the 4.500" crank in the early blocks as the cylinders are a 1/4" shorter and with the 4.500' stroke the crank isn't as strong as the shorter stroke cranks, [less journal overlap] unless you go to a steel crank. With high side clearances, good valve train and proper shortblock prep the engine should be fine to 7-7.5K rpm so you will need to gear and prop for that. FYI: I run a 514" in a heavy Howard wood deck, 22% gear and a 11.5 x 15 prop and have had no problem spinning it 7500 rpm.

[RiverRacer]

Bob's all pumped up now, LOL. I like the FE myself!..:p:D:D

[058]

Bob's all pumped up now, LOL. I like the FE myself!..:p:D:D
Hey, Its not every day someone does a Ford for a flat...;)

[Mr72Sanger1710]

Thank You 058,So I think the block I have is the D9TE its in an 86 one ton van I have not yet pulled the motor. Got it from a friend he thinks it is the stock motor he has owned it since 1993. If it is they have the longer cylinder right, should I go with the 4.5 then ? Heads I am thinking about the ones with the chevy bolt pattern ( Blue Thunder i think? ) any thoughts? figured i could get headers easier . Also I read about Paul Kahne with the oiling stuff is that what you refer to on block prep? Thanks Rob

[RiverRacer]

Hey, Its not every day someone does a Ford for a flat...;)
Yeah no shit huh!..:D

[RiverRacer]

Also I read about Paul Kahne with the oiling stuff is that what you refer to on block prep? Thanks Rob

I know Paul and he knows his $hit on the "385" stuff!..

http://www.highflowdynamics.net/?

[warpt71]

Hey, Its not every day someone does a Ford for a flat...;)

THANK GOD!!!!!!! :D :D :D

[RiverRacer]

THANK GOD!!!!!!! :D :D :D

Figured that was coming, LOL..:D

[Mr72Sanger1710]

Im Guessing we have chevy fans?

[RiverRacer]

Im Guessing we have chevy fans?

That's 99% of the world ain't it, LOL..:D

[058]

Thank You 058,So I think the block I have is the D9TE its in an 86 one ton van I have not yet pulled the motor. Got it from a friend he thinks it is the stock motor he has owned it since 1993. If it is they have the longer cylinder right, should I go with the 4.5 then ? Heads I am thinking about the ones with the chevy bolt pattern ( Blue Thunder i think? ) any thoughts? figured i could get headers easier . Also I read about Paul Kahne with the oiling stuff is that what you refer to on block prep? Thanks Rob
If you have the D9 block then you have the longer cylinders but I still would stay away from the 4.500" crank as it will cost you a small fortune in Mallory metal to balance it. In order for the crank to fit in the later block and clear the longer cyls. the crank counterweight diameter is reduced just as all late cranks are. You can install a externally balanced late crank in a early block but you can't install a early internally balanced crank in a late block without cutting something. The Blue Thunder heads are a good choice. The BBC exhaust bolt pattern is used as there are more exhaust systems available for the BBC than for the BBF. Also so that guys can change from a BBC to a BBF and not have to spend a fortune on new exhaust.:D There is little difference in actual flow between the 2 types of exhaust ports. As far as oiling mods you will have to ask Paul, but personally I don't believe they are needed outside a high capacity pan with good baffling, a good pick up and a blueprinted oil pump with a hardened shaft. Both of my engines use a stock oiling system beyond the oil filter and I never had a oil related failure. I don't even feel a high volume pump is nessessary if the bearing clearances are within reason. I would have the block square decked and cut to 10.300" [from your block's 10.320" deck] and zero deck the pistons, run a reverse dome piston as oppose to a plain dish-top to take advantage of the Ford's small and compact combustion chamber and the quench it has to offer. This will help alot when running gas. If the c/r is kept to under 11 to 1 you can run pump 92/93 oct. if you are careful with your tune up.

[Moneypit]

Hey, there was a guy back in 1995 that wanted to build a Ford for a flat. Did he ever finish that one?.........Or was it 96?........Maybe an FE?........Oh well, good luck........MP

[058]

Hey, there was a guy back in 1995 that wanted to build a Ford for a flat. Did he ever finish that one?.........Or was it 96?........Maybe an FE?........Oh well, good luck........MPThat might have been me....and I did build that Ford. A little 466" with twin turbos and a intercooler....funny thing is...its still running great in that Hondo after all these years.:D:D: In case yer wondering I did run the valves back in 01....or was it 02, I ferget.:rolleyes::D

[poncho]

i`m gonna have to give you that round funny stuff

[shooter2]

IMHO and at least up here in Canada it is cheaper to build a bbc rather than a bbf. So I am not criticizing your choice just wondering why. What ever you decide to build you can have a ton of fun with a single 4 barrel motor and tow the kids for miles and miles, while at the same time be able to have some speed fun. Just ask Art how many miles he put on his family skier. Good luck and have a blast.

Brian

[058]

IMHO and at least up here in Canada it is cheaper to build a bbc rather than a bbf. So I am not criticizing your choice just wondering why. What ever you decide to build you can have a ton of fun with a single 4 barrel motor and tow the kids for miles and miles, while at the same time be able to have some speed fun. Just ask Art how many miles he put on his family skier. Good luck and have a blast.

BrianCheaper? How so? Maybe in Canada but here in the States its about equal. As far as new engine parts go Chevys are no cheaper than Fords anymore. Years ago the 427FE Fords were and still are hi dollar deals but the 385 series engines are no more expensive than BBCs. Aluminum heads? about the same price. Rods/pistons...same. Cranks? Billets will be the same no matter what shape they are whittled into. Cast cranks, oh yeah, Fords can get away using cast cranks moreso than Chevys. Blocks? Within a couple hundred bucks either way depend on where you buy them. Cams/valve train?...same $$$. Only difference with BBC/BBF is the used parts market Chevy guys tend to sell their surplus parts, Ford guys tend to hoard them, present company included.:D Can you still find BBC rebuildable core engines for under $4-500.00? yeah, didn't think so. BBFs? good cores can be had for $150-200. and in most cases the seller will toss in the land yacht the 460 came in so you can recover all your $$$ at the scrap metal yard when the empty hulk is hauled off.

[Mr72Sanger1710]

Shooter 2 I have built a couple of SBC's even built a pretty nasty 400 for my GTO back in the day couldn;t keep freeze plugs in it ? never did figure that one out, anyway loked at some BBF #'s and was impressed it will cost considerably more but I got lucky and came across some BBF stuff to mount it, just got those, saved a couple bucks and have been in touch with Paul will probably have him do some stuff or refer me to some one up here Thanks All for the encouragement, got to go make money now
Rob

[RiverRacer]

got to go make money now

There's the key right there, no matter what you build, LOL..:D

[RiverRacer]

BBFs? good cores can be had for $150-200.

I picked up a 460 a few months ago complete less the rockers and pushrods for $100, haven't figured what I'm going to do with it yet though,LOL Wish it was an FE!. :D

[dmontzsta]

Fords are good, I like them. :) Going to hop in my Mustang and go to work now, so I can make some more money. :D

[RiverRacer]

Fords are good, I like them. :) Going to hop in my Mustang and go to work now, so I can make some more money. :D

Bout time you did something!..:rolleyes::D

[Mr72Sanger1710]

Well I just picked up a timing cover brand new for pretty reasonable the guy has a couple more, I believe if anyone wants to build a ford?:D

[RiverRacer]

Well I just picked up a timing cover brand new for pretty reasonable the guy has a couple more, I believe if anyone wants to build a ford?:D

Do you have motor plates and stuff???..

[Mr72Sanger1710]

That's 99% of the world ain't it, LOL..:D

Dear RR My Email is Mr61Panel ( 61 Chevy Panel ) Sitting on an 81 Impalla wagon frame in the process of sectioning the Body and the Panel part is gone as it is now I guess a roadster it has no more Top. I guess I fit in there somewere as well

[RiverRacer]

Dear RR My Email is Mr61Panel ( 61 Chevy Panel ) Sitting on an 81 Impalla wagon frame in the process of sectioning the Body and the Panel part is gone as it is now I guess a roadster it has no more Top. I guess I fit in there somewere as well

Wow that sounds like a cool project, how bout starting a thread in the "Off Topic" section and post some pics!..:cool:

[Mr72Sanger1710]

058 do you have a recomendation on Piston brand Also if I use the 4.3 crank will it then be an internall balance motor or is it still outside? thanks Rob

[Mr72Sanger1710]

Do you have motor plates and stuff???..

I got a plate that goes with the Timing cover 1/2" Aluminum and not sure what I need for the bellhousing it has two aluminam angle iron type pieces ? Will definatly need some help with this stuff when I get there . need to do the floor first

[058]

058 do you have a recomendation on Piston brand Also if I use the 4.3 crank will it then be an internall balance motor or is it still outside? thanks RobI prefer JE pistons but thats just my opinion. Any of the major piston mfgs will work for you such as Venolia, Ross, Diamond, etc. The 4.300" crank will be much easier to balance internally than the 4.500", as said before the 4.500 crank will cost a fortune in Mallory to get the thing balanced. Seen too many times guys buy the 4.500" crank for a decent deal but then have to spend an extra $300 in Mallory to get the thing to balance and for the extra stress it will place on a stock block the extra .200" isn't worth the trouble. Now if you were to use a A-460 block and a forged crank/premium rods-pistons then it would be worth the extra bucks and make a 572 or 598.

[RiverRacer]

058 do you have a recomendation on Piston brand Also if I use the 4.3 crank will it then be an internall balance motor or is it still outside? thanks Rob

Just get a complete rotating assembly cheap and build a big motor!..

Go Ford! (http://www.adperformance.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=71_234)

[RiverRacer]

I got a plate that goes with the Timing cover 1/2" Aluminum and not sure what I need for the bellhousing it has two aluminam angle iron type pieces ? Will definatly need some help with this stuff when I get there . need to do the floor first

I made these for a guy with a ditch pump a while back, basics still apply for a v-drive though!...

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/3364/21frontge6.jpg

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/7626/21rearby4.jpg

[Mr72Sanger1710]

Nice Work! So is the second one what i need for between the bellhousing and Motor?

[RiverRacer]

Yep, goes up against the block!..