v-drive freshen up

[creepingcharlie]

hi everyone I had a thread on the old site about v-drive temp and was told i should freshen it up. well i just got my gasket set and notices that the cap gaskets are a little different. on two of the caps they had thin shims that are see though and the ones in the set are not. the old one look real thin. should I reuse those ones? all the ones in the set look the same thickness.:confused:

[BradP]

Just go to Art's rebuild thread and check out whole .......................nevermind that's gone.:eek::D

Simple explanation on the shims (gaskets), check the height the bearing protrudes from the case and the depth of the cap the shims need to = the difference to prevent bearing walk.

Art will be in soon to critique my explanation in case I'm off here.:D

[RiverRacer]

Just go to Art's rebuild thread and check out whole .......................nevermind that's gone.:eek::D

Simple explanation on the shims (gaskets), check the height the bearing protrudes from the case and the depth of the cap the shims need to = the difference to prevent bearing walk.

Art will be in soon to critique my explanation in case I'm off here.:D

About sums it up!..:D

[RiverRacer]

hi everyone I had a thread on the old site about v-drive temp and was told i should freshen it up. well i just got my gasket set and notices that the cap gaskets are a little different. on two of the caps they had thin shims that are see though and the ones in the set are not. the old one look real thin. should I reuse those ones? all the ones in the set look the same thickness.:confused:

Those are real old shims and I don't even remember what the thickness is anymore, but the new ones are all .005 and I would just use those, but check the thickness of the old ones and compare them, if they are different and they are good you can use them to get a closer fit if necessary, but if they are .005 just chuck em!..

[creepingcharlie]

I was thinking since I have my case apart I want to change fastener but don't know if it necessary or what kind to us. I think they are SS because they haven't rusted but they are a little dull.


I also wanna say that the gasket set that I got from Rex didn't have the right in/out housing gasket( I know I need wirlaway) so I call. they said that I would have to call Casale. so I did and spoke to Andy, I just wanna say he took the time and effort to make sure I got the right gasket and is mailing it to me with out paying first. I will do business with him again. thank you Casale.

[RiverRacer]

They wouldn't be stainless unless someone changed them out at one time they are probaly Zinc plated just take a magnet to em that'll tell ya, I would not use stainless myself and unless they are bad no need to change them!... I'm really surprised you didn't get the right shims from Mike though!...

[creepingcharlie]

yeah me to. It wasn't the shims that were not in the kit. It was the square gasket for the in/out housing. I guess I have the early model hosing with the smaller square
gasket. I also ask Andy about the see though shims and said that those were .002 and are no longer used.

I was not trying to bad mouth Rex by an means they were also very help and led me in the right place. I will also continue to do business with them.

[BradP]

I used ARP 12 point stainless they are rated at grade 8 or =.

[RiverRacer]

They're a little pricey ain't they!..:confused:

[BradP]

They're a little pricey ain't they!..:confused:


But they's purdy.:p:D

[RiverRacer]

But they's purdy.:p:D

No argument there!..:D

[RiverRacer]

yeah me to. It wasn't the shims that were not in the kit. It was the square gasket for the in/out housing. I guess I have the early model hosing with the smaller square
gasket. I also ask Andy about the see though shims and said that those were .002 and are no longer used.

I was not trying to bad mouth Rex by an means they were also very help and led me in the right place. I will also continue to do business with them.

I take it you're talking about the side cover gasket, I just make those,lol!.. Yeah , haven't seen those see through shims for ages!..

[flatbroke]

A couple of years ago I rebuilt my Casale and rather than opening Art's V-Drive rebuild thread every time I needed a dimension or pointer I saved it and made a Word document of it. Then when backing up my computer it got saved to a disc, this morning I found it while looking for something else. I know it was very helpful to me and I am sure it will be the same for someone elses's Casale first rebuild.

For those that have never changed gears before, I'll give a quick rundown on it. The first thing you will need is a bearing puller (unless you have the newer ones with tapered bearings) for the top bearing! Remove the cap and make note of how many shims there is, pull the bearing out. Now take a small trash bag and slip it on the bottom to catch the oil, now remove all the case bolts, the oil will drain in the bag, throw the bag away. On the bottom cap there will be a bolt with a jam nut, run the bolt in against the shaft, keep turning the bolt in until the case comes off, the bearing will stay in the case. Make note of your spacers, they must go back the same way. Take note of the backlash on the gears, now remove them and put the new set in, the backlash should be the same! You can reuse the case gasket if it didn't tear up when it came apart, when reassembling use ONLY white grease on both sides. Put the spacers back on then the case back on the bottom shaft, you can use a piece of wood and tap it on. The top bearing can be put on by tapping it on or putting a little heat on the case and pushing it on, put all your case bolts back on. On the case half you just put on, remove the pipe plug at the top, on the back case down where the output shaft is, there is another pipe plug remove that one also. Now poor the oil in the top one until the oil comes to the threads on the bottom one just like in a rear end. Put the plugs back in and you're good to go!
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/97701_bearing_puller.jpg

[flatbroke]

On to the rebuild. I will not do a bolt by bolt deal since this is coming back apart to trim the plate for mounting and detail the cases. Then I will do the final stack up and assembly. What I'll show is the procedure to measure everything up!

http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/97702_all_the_parts.jpg

First step will be to press on all the new bearings on all three shafts!

http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/97703_press_bearings.jpg

Next I'll install the top and bottom bearings and shafts, they go in the rear case with the lip. You can press them in the case or apply a little heat and they slide right in. I set the case out in the sun and put the bearings and shafts in the freezer for a while as I did other stuff. After the case got warm and the bearings cold, they just dropped right in!

http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/97704_shafts_installed.jpg

Gather up the shim gaskets and refer to diagram for the amount that goes on the top cap and the shift housing!

http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/97705_shim_gaskets.jpg

[flatbroke]

Now measure the depth of the cap and make note of the reading!

http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/97706_measure_end_cap.jpg

Now measure how much the bearing protrudes out of the case and make note of your reading. Now compare the two readings. Whatever the differences are determines how many shims to use, it must come out equal that's what holds the bearings in place. If there's a gap the bearings can walk back and you will end up with play in the gears and end up with internal damage. Install the cap and the shift housing in reverse order as you took it apart!

http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/97707_measure_bearing.jpg

Now we can check the backlash. Referring to diagram for the right spacer for the bottom shaft, (no spacer on the top) I'll check backlash on the gears...

http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/97708_spacer.jpg

With the gears installed we can check for backlash. If you don't have a feel for backlash, I STRONGLY advise that you use a dial indicator to check this. Ideal is .008 to .010 backlash! If you're lucky and you have the ideal amount you're done. But if they are too tight, the bottom gear has to go back towards the case and if you’re loose it will have to go forward. If the gear has to go back, you can machine the spacer. If I remember right, .005 will give you .001 clearance. Note that what ever is taken off the inner spacer will have to be added to the outer one, you will have to get another spacer or dig one up and machine it to the required size. The same procedure is done for the opposite, just remember that whatever is taken off has to be added to the other!

http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/97709_backlash.jpg

[flatbroke]

Now that you're satisfied with the lash one last check, put outer spacers on and slip the bearing on the shaft, while pushing down on the bearing try and lift the gear, you must not be able to, if you can move the gear that means the bearing is bottomed out on the shaft and not the spacer and that will result in the gear moving back and forth when running, not good! If you have slack you can use a feeler guage between the spacer and gear to figure how much longer the spacer has to be, do this on both shafts!

http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/977010_spacer_check.jpg

With that done the plate can be installed to the rear case! If you're replacing the old case gaskets, make sure they are the same thickness as the old ones, there are thick and thins and some older ones had a thick and a thin on one side, make sure that they are put back on the same side! Only use white grease on both sides of the gaskets so they will not stick. That way they will come off when needed and the gaskets can be reused and you won't have to scrape off the gasket and gouge up the surface!

http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/977011_plate_gasket.jpg

Now set the case down on the plate, put 2 bolts in at the top and bottom to line up the gasket and install the 2 5/16 bolts and tighten, those are what holds the V-drive together when changing gears!

http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/977012_case_secured_to_plate.jpg

[flatbroke]

Now turn it over and put the bottom spacer on and the gears (Bottom gear first) and put on the outer spacers!

http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/977013_gears_and_spacers.jpg

Now grease up both sides of the front case gasket and lay the case down. Install the bottom bearing first, you can tap it on or use a little heat, make sure the bearing bottoms out on the spacer. Repeat on the top one, install all the bolts. Now install the end caps as discussed previously, done deal! Hope this made sense! If not send V-drive and $$$$$$$$!

http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/977014_front_case_.jpg

[flatbroke]

Art, take a minute and make sure I didn't leave out a step or 2. It is as I have it now, but that may not be how you put it up a while back.

[RiverRacer]

Well, it's been quite a while but it seems like it's all there thanks for bringing it up because I couldn't find it, I know I've got it somewhere though!.. One thing that's changed is that Dave don't make the pullers anymore, but I think JJ makes them so it's no biggie!.. Also don't remember if I did the output section or not, I keep thinking that I didn't????????????...:confused:

[jaminj946]

that is fantastic!! I was so bummed when the old sight flushed cuz I was constantly referanceing it for info since this is my first v-drive project. JJ is doing my v-drive now but it's nice to know how it works so if I want to change gears later I can. Now,.......who has all of Art and George's threads on engine placement,....plate setup,.....gear and prop selection,....etc etc???? lol

[creepingcharlie]

that look to be all of it. on the old site I printed it all out and will refer to as I do my reasembly. I just hope that replacing bearing will not affect backlash.

[BradP]

that look to be all of it. on the old site I printed it all out and will refer to as I do my reasembly. I just hope that replacing bearing will not affect backlash.


That's easy to figure out though, if I can do it anyone can.:D

[RiverRacer]

that look to be all of it. on the old site I printed it all out and will refer to as I do my reasembly. I just hope that replacing bearing will not affect backlash.

Shouldn't but check it anyhow, but anytime you replace parts it all has to be re stacked and measured!.... Also when you put the shift housing on check that little thrust bearing deal!.. I don't think I had that part in the build up???..

[creepingcharlie]

is that the thing that slide with the dogs on it or the c shaped lever that moves to engage the output shaft. or is it the little bearing that sit in the lower shaft piliot hole for the output shaft?

[RiverRacer]

It's the little thrust bearing that goes between the lower shaft and the output shaft, it's a little flat Torrington bearing and a race on each side!..

[gfinishline]

Please note that the original bolt/nut combination is FINE THREAD! Fine threaded fasteners are used for their "clamping power" over regular coarse threads. DO NOT use anything other than fine threaded fasteners on the "case halfs". No matter what material you use. But you guys who work on them know this already!

[RiverRacer]

And so are the pressed nuts so it's a natural!..

[creepingcharlie]

It's the little thrust bearing that goes between the lower shaft and the output shaft, it's a little flat Torrington bearing and a race on each side!..

ok thats what i thought. yes it look to be ok to me. I checked the backlash to and its right at .008. hopefully i can get together on sunday if i get a chance. the water is a calling.:D

[creepingcharlie]

Please note that the original bolt/nut combination is FINE THREAD! Fine threaded fasteners are used for their "clamping power" over regular coarse threads. DO NOT use anything other than fine threaded fasteners on the "case halfs". No matter what material you use. But you guys who work on them know this already!

I going to stick with the old ones. I want new shiny ones but then I would have to get the case polish to match. maybe next winter.

[creepingcharlie]

dose any one know how much the case and caps should be torqued(sp) to or just tight but not to tight.

[RiverRacer]

yes it look to be ok to me.

And what does that mean???????????. You check for clearance????, you don't want it jammed in there but you don't want any clearance either or you'll beat it to death!...

[RiverRacer]

dose any one know how much the case and caps should be torqued(sp) to or just tight but not to tight.

Put oil on the threads and tighten and the theory "if in doubt strip it" does not apply!. The cap bolts go into aluminum so be careful!..

[Carrera Elite]

Snug Is Good, Too Tight Is Lose....

[creepingcharlie]

And what does that mean???????????. You check for clearance????, you don't want it jammed in there but you don't want any clearance either or you'll beat it to death!...

how do you check the clearance on it? I didnt see any servery(sp) wear on it.

[creepingcharlie]

I have the case two half mounted to the center plate and the bearing in. my gears are moving back and forth. I pulled the top bearing out and notice that the bearing is not touching the spacer. the case had three gaskets before so i but three back on. if l remove one gasket and the bearing set on the spacer will it be ok to run it? or is there something else I should check or do?:confused:

[creepingcharlie]

well I found out thats it is ok to have space in between the bearing and the space just cant have to much. so i went ahead and in stalled it back in. when they setup this boat they must of not aligned the prop shaft strut and v-drive very well. the shafts is about 1/8 of a inch off. I tried my to line it up but couldn't get it any better. I hope this doesnt cause a problem.

[Norcal_73]

shafts off alignment. could lead to stress, wear parts out quickly.

[RiverRacer]

well I found out thats it is ok to have space in between the bearing and the space just cant have to much. so i went ahead and in stalled it back in. when they setup this boat they must of not aligned the prop shaft strut and v-drive very well. the shafts is about 1/8 of a inch off. I tried my to line it up but couldn't get it any better. I hope this doesnt cause a problem.

So how much is too much??, guess I been wasting a lot of time putting v-drives together to get things to fit right!..... If the shaft is 1/8 off, it must have been a bitch to get the coupler on, and you're going to wipe out strut bushings real quick, and it's hard on the shaft and v-drive, undo the v-drive and line it up!..

[creepingcharlie]

If i did the math right it was about .015. I'd called Casale and also talk to Tom Bentley and they both said you can have a little play. I also know that dose not mean it right. I'm not saying it is set up perfectly but it is the way it was before. As far as the shaft I tried to line it up better and thats as good as I could get. When I have more time I going to try again. This is why I have to replace the sturt bush every season. I think this boat wasn't set up right the first time and know that I'm trying to maintain every thing I'm running in to problem after problem. Now I know its time for a rerigg or a new and set up properly boat. I know when you guys say its not right you mean it and the problem should be addressed. It seems like I have a potato and trying to turn it in to a cherry it just not going to happen. So I do my best with what I have. I do appreciate all help and if it wasn't for guys like you all us young boys wouldn't know sh!t. :D