Experimental Parts (new custom t-ram top)

[Carnivalride]

Well I've been working a ton of OT so my project is just barely crawling along but here's an update. The short of it is I've heard the Tunnel ram 2 x 4 versus the single carb on a single plane high rise intake since before I even owned a boat and after running the single plane set up for 16 years I decided to say what the heck. No more BS just put together the best set up I could and run it and let the numbers tell the story. I felt that the Edelbrock was probably the best choice for my application but I didn't like the top so here's what I've done so far. It's billet so it's got to be faster right!?!?!?

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w251/carnivalride/Scoop%20mountings/tunnelramtop002.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w251/carnivalride/Scoop%20mountings/tunnelramtop004.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w251/carnivalride/Scoop%20mountings/tunnelramtop007.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w251/carnivalride/Scoop%20mountings/tunnelramtop012.jpg

[GR8WHITE]

damn that looks really nice, i wish i still worked at a machine shop sometimes, and i must say thats purdy!!!!!!!!! could you make a 2" carb spacer like that? and if you could how much would it run? :eek:

[Carnivalride]

damn that looks really nice, i wish i still worked at a machine shop sometimes, and i must say thats purdy!!!!!!!!! could you make a 2" carb spacer like that? and if you could how much would it run? :eek:

Thanks basically I don't have access anymore so I designed it and had a old co-worker cut it out, he has a 3 axis machine in his garage. That one is set up as 1.625" spacer and I don't have time do a 2" right now. Price, not sure but as busy as he is it might be $350-400 but I can check if your interested.

[hydroguy]

Did you save the program for that top? :eek:

[Carnivalride]

Did you save the program for that top? :eek:


The guy with the 3 axis has it saved along with my transom blocks and a few other things.

[bubbletop409]

Very nice, I see you turned the carbs sideways, wish they came that way from Edelbrock. Thats the reason I went with a Holley Pro Dom over the Edelbrock.

[Roaddogg 4040]

Looks bitchin.... Let us know how it works...

Steve

[SonnyGlide]

U cats have entirely 2much time on Ur hands:p
ditto...bitchen bro.:D

send the T to Poncho, he likes to polish, and hes cheap... Poncho, I got my Tunnel, valve covers, all the alum. rails, bell housings, motor plates, 3,000 Stainless nutz & boltz heading ur way, how bout next wk.?

[poncho]

thats some good cheat right there man,that t-top looks absolutely beautiful always thought the sideways look was better kinda beefier and more pro looking,Sonny you are one funny cat for sure,doing spring cleaning all weekend and the wifey just figured out why theres a layer of black dust all over the house so now i`m getting when are you gonna be done with the polishing stuff,its all good! she was the vote positive to buy my boat two years ago and drive 6,000 miles to get it home,its nice to have her on my side ya know.I am by no means a pro polisher but my stuff is coming out pretty decent,i would absolutely throw some shine to any v-driveboat members stuff if needed and i mean that even you Sonny

[hm66Howard]

Nice work! :cool:

[poncho]

Sonny excuse my ignorance but WTF is a tunnel,driveline cover maybe? i just finished polishing mine its 6" seamless stainless pipe and i have to say that thing looks as good as the woman bent over pulling a roast out the oven,woo hoo

[Carnivalride]

Thanks for all the compliments guys I appreciate it. :)

Hopefully I'll get this deal up and running again in about a month and half and get sometime to go test & tune it and see what it does besides look good. Not sure what to expect I'm hoping for a couple more tenths and maybe another mph or two if I'm lucky. Time will tell I guess.

[RiverRacer]

Looks great Loren, I have the same manifold except I'm putting a Crower 8 holer on it!..:D

[Carnivalride]

Looks great Loren, I have the same manifold except I'm putting a Crower 8 holer on it!..:D

Thanks Art.

So are you tapping the tunnel ram base near the head mating surface for the injectors or are they going to be on the new top your making? I really did think about going injection this time but I backed out. LOL

[dry]

That is a nice looking billet piece, real nice!

[FC-Pilot]

Loren, it would be relay interesting to do on track testing of both tops and see which one performs better.

Paul

[Carnivalride]

Loren, it would be relay interesting to do on track testing of both tops and see which one performs better.

Paul

Paul,

I'd like to do that but the factory top mounts them inline and I'm using 750dp's (secondary metering block and center hung float bowls) so they won't fit. I'm also to cheap to buy the chessy $50 adapters so I can mount them sideways on the factory piece to see. I was so impressed with those adapters is one of the main reasons I did this to start with. So I will basically be testing this set up with a pair of 750dps versus my old Weiand Team G single plane and flowed 850 (990cfm supposibly). I will post my results once I get some test time for those who are curious.

[Carnivalride]

That is a nice looking billet piece, real nice!

Thanks, hopefully it'll run better to! :)

[Terrible toy]

Nice job, looks like it may also have good shear plate benefits.

[RiverRacer]

Thanks Art.

So are you tapping the tunnel ram base near the head mating surface for the injectors or are they going to be on the new top your making? I really did think about going injection this time but I backed out. LOL

Yep, you have to put the nozzles down low for it to work, it won't work with the nozzles on the hat like a blown deal, on an N/A deal all you end up doing is pouring solid fuel down in the cylinders!... Nozzles will about an inch up from the base, pretty much in line to the intake valve, but I'm not just tapping the manifold I'm welding bosses so I can use straight nozzles and won't have the nozzles sticking out into the port!..

BTW, you do realize that this manifold is a very high rpm deal, right!...

[Carnivalride]

Yep, you have to put the nozzles down low for it to work, it won't work with the nozzles on the hat like a blown deal, on an N/A deal all you end up doing is pouring solid fuel down in the cylinders!... Nozzles will about an inch up from the base, pretty much in line to the intake valve, but I'm not just tapping the manifold I'm welding bosses so I can use straight nozzles and won't have the nozzles sticking out into the port!..

BTW, you do realize that this manifold is a very high rpm deal, right!...

Art,

Well even in the short track set up (big prop) she was flashing 5700-5800rpm, crossing the starting beam at 6500rpm and was over 7000rpm by the half track on those 1000' deals and brick walled at around 7200rpm about 200-300' before the finishline. So my guess was that the tunnel ram "should" work nicely in that range and hopefully add some rpm on top. Any more thoughts, in agreement or otherwise?

Loren

[RiverRacer]

Art,

Well even in the short track set up (big prop) she was flashing 5700-5800rpm, crossing the starting beam at 6500rpm and was over 7000rpm by the half track on those 1000' deals and brick walled at around 7200rpm about 200-300' before the finishline. So my guess was that the tunnel ram "should" work nicely in that range and hopefully add some rpm on top. Any more thoughts, in agreement or otherwise?

Loren

Well, as long as the flash point is high enough it should work, you seem to be in the ballpark there, you should get more top end with it as long as your cam has a higher rpm range!..

[Carnivalride]

Well, as long as the flash point is high enough it should work, you seem to be in the ballpark there, you should get more top end with it as long as your cam has a higher rpm range!..

Advertised range is 4200-7600rpm
304/316 adv duration
268/278 @050
110ls installed on the 110 intake CL
.643/.633 lift

However I run lash at .024" instead of the recommended .030/.032 so
272/281 @ .050" actual duration and 619/609 actual lift.


So I would think it might be good for a couple hundred more?

[RiverRacer]

Advertised range is 4200-7600rpm
304/316 adv duration
268/278 @050
110ls installed on the 110 intake CL
.643/.633 lift

However I run lash at .024" instead of the recommended .030/.032 so
272/281 @ .050" actual duration and 619/609 actual lift.


So I would think it might be good for a couple hundred more?

You'll definitely see a difference over the single carb manifold for sure, may take a little tuning but what the heck!..

[Carnivalride]

You'll definitely see a difference over the single carb manifold for sure, may take a little tuning but what the heck!..

I hope so that was my plan. As usual I missed guessed my costs a little but I'm still sitting in everything for about half of new so I can't complain. I just hope this works better than my gear change experiment did. LOL

Hey any updates on that GN deal of yours I see its in your avatar. :cool:

[RiverRacer]

I hope so that was my plan. As usual I missed guessed my costs a little but I'm still sitting in everything for about half of new so I can't complain. I just hope this works better than my gear change experiment did. LOL

Hey any updates on that GN deal of yours I see its in your avatar. :cool:

Well, half of new is always good especially if it don't turn out the way you expect it to, don't hurt so bad, lol!..

All projects are on hold now(except the ditch pump to sell)gotta get this place in shape to sell to make the move in another 8 months, so time and money don't allow for projects at this time!..

[Carnivalride]

All projects are on hold now(except the ditch pump to sell)gotta get this place in shape to sell to make the move in another 8 months, so time and money don't allow for projects at this time!..

Guess I missed that, so where are you moving to?

[RiverRacer]

Guess I missed that, so where are you moving to?

Nahh you didn't miss it, this is the first time I made it known. I'm moving to the river just south of Parker!..

[Carnivalride]

Nahh you didn't miss it, this is the first time I made it known. I'm moving to the river just south of Parker!..

Moving to the river!?!?!?! Well I'd say that sounds like a great deal, congrats!!! :cool::cool::cool:

[RiverRacer]

Moving to the river!?!?!?! Well I'd say that sounds like a great deal, congrats!!! :cool::cool::cool:

Thanks Loren, we can't wait to get there!..:cool:

[Carnivalride]

Here's a shot of the old set up vs the new experimental stuff

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w251/carnivalride/Scoop%20mountings/IMG_2783.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w251/carnivalride/Scoop%20mountings/IMG_2786.jpg
Sample of port match

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w251/carnivalride/Scoop%20mountings/IMG_2791.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w251/carnivalride/Scoop%20mountings/IMG_2792.jpg
a couple on the boat with the painted tunnel ram with the new top.

[Carnivalride]

And a few more pics of roughed in parts.

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w251/carnivalride/Scoop%20mountings/IMG_2794.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w251/carnivalride/Scoop%20mountings/IMG_2796.jpg
a couple of the new formed scoop base plate I made. Anyway it's not finished but it's roughed in and ready to mark for trimming I think. LOL

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w251/carnivalride/Scoop%20mountings/IMG_2798.jpg
All stacked up trying to get the scoop where I want it so I can trim the base plate.

Eventually I will mill the choke horns or switch to HP main bodies so maybe that base plate will do some good. :o

[RiverRacer]

Looking good there Loren, doing a good job!..:cool:

[Terrible toy]

Looking good. Too late now but if you were starting over you might have angled the carbs so the 2,6,3,7 ports were aligned closer to the barrels. How's the runner entry look from the top of the manifold? I like your scoop base, should straighten the air out fine. Are you going to seal it to the scoop?

[FC-Pilot]

I am with bill, I like your work on the base. That will work great for directing the air into the carbs. Many guys miss that part. Oh, and the rest looks great too.

Paul

[Carnivalride]

Looking good there Loren, doing a good job!..:cool: Thanks Art I appreciate it just wish I had more time or worked faster.


Looking good. Too late now but if you were starting over you might have angled the carbs so the 2,6,3,7 ports were aligned closer to the barrels. How's the runner entry look from the top of the manifold? I like your scoop base, should straighten the air out fine. Are you going to seal it to the scoop? Bill I looked into that when I originally designed the base and with the distance between the even and odd ports with that manifold it wasn’t really helping. I’d have to look at my notes but a small twist around 7-11* helped but then it interfered with the mounting holes. I used clear lexan and a striped carb base to play with that idea. I’ll try and snap a straight down shot before I mount the carbs for real. Yes I plan on sealing the scoop to the base, I hope it should help some, Thanks.


I am with bill, I like your work on the base. That will work great for directing the air into the carbs. Many guys miss that part. Oh, and the rest looks great too.

Paul Thanks Paul I have to try and make up ground where I can, maybe between all that it’ll pick up some over the old single carb deal. I sure feel like I kissed the K.I.S.S. principal good bye though. LOL

[RiverRacer]

Thanks Art I appreciate it just wish I had more time or worked faster.

You'll get there, just takes time and patience!..

[Terrible toy]

I know what you mean about compromises to reality. I'm sure we've all been there where you know something might work a little better but the "real" world says in the great scheme of things it's not worth the trouble.

I thought I would share some photos of a scoop I made. I like your bell entry better then mine, but I ran into that compromise thing. This engine is in a roadster and I needed to keep the scoop low for visibility and to cut wind resistance. Your sealing the base to the scoop is smart. A lot of racers dzus fasten aluminum base plates to fiberglass scoops. They lose positive air pressure and create turbulence inside the scoop with air leaking around the base. Another thing I like is your scoop's opening area. It's not oversize, like a lot of scoops, and it's high enough for the air not to cause turbulence over the carbs. I used a Harwood style opening for height reduction but it's about half the area.

As a side note this is the very last fiberglass anything I'm ever going to build.:D

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll317/terribletoy/bottomofscoop.jpghttp://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll317/terribletoy/frontscoop.jpghttp://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll317/terribletoy/carbsscoop.jpg

[Carnivalride]

I know what you mean about compromises to reality. I'm sure we've all been there where you know something might work a little better but the "real" world says in the great scheme of things it's not worth the trouble.

I thought I would share some photos of a scoop I made. I like your bell entry better then mine, but I ran into that compromise thing. This engine is in a roadster and I needed to keep the scoop low for visibility and to cut wind resistance. Your sealing the base to the scoop is smart. A lot of racers dzus fasten aluminum base plates to fiberglass scoops. They lose positive air pressure and create turbulence inside the scoop with air leaking around the base. Another thing I like is your scoop's opening area. It's not oversize, like a lot of scoops, and it's high enough for the air not to cause turbulence over the carbs. I used a Harwood style opening for height reduction but it's about half the area.

As a side note this is the very last fiberglass anything I'm ever going to build.:D

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll317/terribletoy/bottomofscoop.jpg

I tend to get hung up on a few little things that always slow my progress way down. I thought the whole deal through and gave it my best educarted guesstimate and started building. LOL In a few weeks I hop eto start testing and then next spring I'll hit some races and see what it really does. :eek:

I never thought about the one piece scoop I was just going to mount my base and then fasten the scoop to it.... Damn another idea to ponder and slow me down. LOL

As far as the last fiberglass anything you ever build......... aren't you the one that built a hydro plug, a mold and then at least one boat? I think after all that glass work its got in your blood and you'll build more stuff in the future! ;)

[Terrible toy]

I tend to get hung up on a few little things that always slow my progress way down. I thought the whole deal through and gave it my best educarted guesstimate and started building. LOL In a few weeks I hop eto start testing and then next spring I'll hit some races and see what it really does. :eek:

I never thought about the one piece scoop I was just going to mount my base and then fasten the scoop to it.... Damn another idea to ponder and slow me down. LOL

As far as the last fiberglass anything you ever build......... aren't you the one that built a hydro plug, a mold and then at least one boat? I think after all that glass work its got in your blood and you'll build more stuff in the future! ;)

Yes, that's true. My partner, Dale Lambert, and I were in the boat business for a while. We actually built 6 hydros and a jet boat that we bought a mold for. After the initial plug, molds, and first hydro (which took the two of us 9 months) Dale and a guy we hired built most of the next 6 boats.

I took over the really hard job of driving the test boat and marketing it at the races.:D I guess everyone has their thing, I really don't like "wet" work like fiberglass, painting, etc., metal fabricating and working on engines is more in line with what I enjoy.

[ABBOTTCRAFT]

It amazing how much work goes into something as simple as building a fiberglass scoop..not to mention designing a base that will fit your application.. I have designed/altered 5 or six different style scoops from plugs to finish product that each require their own style bases..Trying to build a fiberglass base that will fit any application is impossible..If I make one in White, They want it in Black... And they want it yesterday!! For the money that you can get for them, I wonder why I try sometimes..Then when shipping cost are added to the price people act like your really robbing them sometimes...So I make them when I get the time & desire...Carnivalride & Terrible Toy your scoops look great...I really enjoy the Creative part of doing glass work, lord knows it ain't for the $$$...Again nice work guys..;););)

[FC-Pilot]

I think after all that glass work its got in your blood and you'll build more stuff in the future! ;)

Oh, it gets in your blood alright. It also gets in your lungs and embedded into your skin too.:D

Paul

Bill, what heads is that intake for? It looks like a splayed valve small block, but why the long runners?

[pwderman]

Both scoops and carb setups look great and I'm sure they'll work even better...:cool:...doing something with planning and ingenuity is always harder than hacking something together but the rewards are greater...:D

[Terrible toy]

Oh, it gets in your blood alright. It also gets in your lungs and embedded into your skin too.:D

Paul

Bill, what heads is that intake for? It looks like a splayed valve small block, but why the long runners?

Not to mention getting acetone in cuts.:eek:

You know your Chevrolet heads.:cool: When I got the manifold from Larry Olson I thought they looked short!! The photo may be a little deceiving, the runners are only 4 1/4 inches long.

[FC-Pilot]

We seem to find ourselves in Eaton's shop every now and then and got in a discussion regarding runner length. They said the more they shortened the runners the better it would run on the top end. The last small block deal they did like yours was noticeably shorter than four inches. That is also why the A and B/ND guys have incredibly short stack injectors. Every time Kinsler or Hilborn comes up with a shorter manifold they get it and pick up more on top. Anyway, just throwing it out there.

Loren, sorry for the sidetrack.

Paul

[Carnivalride]

It amazing how much work goes into something as simple as building a fiberglass scoop..not to mention designing a base that will fit your application.. I have designed/altered 5 or six different style scoops from plugs to finish product that each require their own style bases..Trying to build a fiberglass base that will fit any application is impossible..If I make one in White, They want it in Black... And they want it yesterday!! For the money that you can get for them, I wonder why I try sometimes..Then when shipping cost are added to the price people act like your really robbing them sometimes...So I make them when I get the time & desire...Carnivalride & Terrible Toy your scoops look great...I really enjoy the Creative part of doing glass work, lord knows it ain't for the $$$...Again nice work guys..;);) Thanks ABBOTT I've dabbled in glasswork just enough to know I'm not ready for anything very big. I don't believe I'd try laying up a boat just yet but it looks like you do pretty good at it. ;) I skipped a step on this deal (no plug) and went right to the mold the only thing is the painted mold doesn't hold up like gel coat so I'm not sure how many parts it will make. Not sure I can sell these the center to center will only work with these Edelbrocks or something with the same 9.38" dimension. As usual for me another one off deal. LOL



Loren, sorry for the sidetrack.

Paul


LOL, no problem this site is about socializing to right? Guess I need to make fancier parts to keep it on track. :p

[Carnivalride]

Both scoops and carb setups look great and I'm sure they'll work even better...:cool:...doing something with planning and ingenuity is always harder than hacking something together but the rewards are greater...:D
Thanks I hope so but that aluminum top is the piece I've wasted so much time on, man I hope it works out! :eek: :D

[pwderman]

Thanks I hope so but that aluminum top is the piece I've wasted so much time on, man I hope it works out! :eek: :D

It's just part of the learning curve...:D...nobody starts out knowing everthing...:confused:...well I guess some people think they do...LOL

[Terrible toy]

We seem to find ourselves in Eaton's shop every now and then and got in a discussion regarding runner length. They said the more they shortened the runners the better it would run on the top end. The last small block deal they did like yours was noticeably shorter than four inches. That is also why the A and B/ND guys have incredibly short stack injectors. Every time Kinsler or Hilborn comes up with a shorter manifold they get it and pick up more on top. Anyway, just throwing it out there.

Loren, sorry for the sidetrack.

Paul

I've talked to Rick Watters at Eaton, really nice people and they have some hard running comp cars. I was introduced to him by Dean Carter who runs an A and B/ND. I had a K/AA 4 cylinder altered at Las Vegas and Carter stopped by to take a look because he used to run a very similar car with the same block and Ford head. I was all set to take the motor down to Eatons and have them dyno it, but decided to build the current B/AA instead.

Now Paul, no fair comparing fuel injection runners to a plenum chambered carb system.:rolleyes: With injectors you have no plenum resonance effect on the reverse pressure wave. I think that you would want the wave exiting to atmosphere quickly with injectors, ie shorter intake length, rather then stacking in the port.

My car has a relatively small engine and powerglide so I need a broader torque band to cover the launch and shift recovery (longer runners tend to lower and broaden the torque curve). As you know it's all a huge compromise between top end power and the torque to get there. I've have seen some plenum manifolds that had short runners but they had to use split carbs to do it. On plenum manifolds if you shorten the runner you have to widen the plenum and then have to split the carbs to get port alignment back.

Trying to ring the last possible ounce of power out of normally aspirated engines is about to end for me anyway. My engine right now makes about 2.35 horses per cubic inch. The hitters in my class are now making 2.8. I've decided that it's not worth it any more to chase people willing to spend upwards of 400 grand for a comp car. So, I'm going to race the NHRA and ANRA nostalgia races. They have a 7.60 class that I can run without stressing the motor and just have fun.

[FC-Pilot]

Bill, now hearing about your tranny it makes a little more sense. Yes, you are also right that stacks and a plenum intake are different. It just so happens that they found that they could find power on both by doing the same thing. I got to see them working on a four cylinder (from a big block Chevy platform, actually a DRCE2) where they did some testing with both stacks and a sheetmetal intake. They were unhappy with both, but the sheetmetal worked much better for them as they were able to make power in the RPM range that they were looking for which the stacks would not give them.

Loren, thanks for being understanding with our rant, as I figure an open discussion might help some of us learn while it might also bring others knowledge about the topic out for all of us to consider. I can't wait to hear about the performance change that this combo will make.

Paul

[ABBOTTCRAFT]

Loren... So is there any chance you'll be makin' a trip out to CFW next year so we can get a good look at your boat...Post more pics if you got them....Don't be to proud, post them up.......:D:D:D

[Carnivalride]

Loren... So is there any chance you'll be makin' a trip out to CFW next year so we can get a good look at your boat...Post more pics if you got them....Don't be to proud, post them up.......:D:D:D


Probably won't make CFW for a few years yet kind of a long tow for me. It's one of those things I'd like to do but not sure when I'll have time or be able to convince the wife we need to do it.

I'll try and put some picture back in my photo gallery. LOL

http://www.v-driveboat.com/vweb/album.php?albumid=174

[SnoC653]

Probably won't make CFW for a few years yet kind of a long tow for me. It's one of those things I'd like to do but not sure when I'll have time or be able to convince the wife we need to do it.

I'll try and put some picture back in my photo gallery. LOL

http://www.v-driveboat.com/vweb/album.php?albumid=174

well if you get serious about going one of these years, maybe we could get a few of us midwest people to go as a group. Just link up as we travel west and go as a convoy. Always good to have a group when making a trek with either boats or horses.

[Carnivalride]

Well the wifes been sick and I haven't been able to work much but here's where am at. Installed the top plate and spacer bracket for real. Trimmed the scoop base plate and ran some plumbing lines. Heck it's even got a battery now.
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w251/carnivalride/Scoop%20mountings/IMG_2733.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w251/carnivalride/Scoop%20mountings/IMG_2734.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w251/carnivalride/Scoop%20mountings/IMG_2736.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w251/carnivalride/Scoop%20mountings/IMG_2737.jpg

[gfinishline]

Let me see..... Wife has been sick, so you stay home from work "to take care of her". You go out to garage and work on boat. "4 or 5 days later". Tunnel ram, carbs, hoses, linkage and scoop. Have you gone back into the house to check on wife? Hope she's still alive! HA HA! You can go to CFW anytime you like, but there are RULES about no 'bench seats' down here on the river after 1973! HA HA HA! Hope all you guys can make it out here soon!!!!

[Carnivalride]

Let me see..... Wife has been sick, so you stay home from work "to take care of her". You go out to garage and work on boat. "4 or 5 days later". Tunnel ram, carbs, hoses, linkage and scoop. Have you gone back into the house to check on wife? Hope she's still alive! HA HA! You can go to CFW anytime you like, but there are RULES about no 'bench seats' down here on the river after 1973! HA HA HA! Hope all you guys can make it out here soon!!!!

C'mon George I ain't that bad I did go to work and check on her once a day. :D Hey since I'm only a ski boat surely the bench seats alright after all it still is a fiberglass shell with a snap in vinyl cover. Tell you what I'll even post a few pics of it just for you George. LOL

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w251/carnivalride/Progresspicfrontright.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w251/carnivalride/Progresspictopback-1.jpg

and it met this guys seal of approval
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w251/carnivalride/Spencerdriving.jpg

[Norseman]

C'mon George I ain't that bad I did go to work and check on her once a day. :D Hey since I'm only a ski boat surely the bench seats alright after all it still is a fiberglass shell with a snap in vinyl cover. Tell you what I'll even post a few pics of it just for you George. LOL

[/IMG]

Very Nice!!:D:D

[Carnivalride]

Very Nice!!:D:D Thanks Norseman I didn't think it was that bad either. LOL ;):D

[TonkaDriver]

Sweet, Like the bench seat.

Kurt

[Carnivalride]

Sweet, Like the bench seat.

Kurt
Thanks Kurt, it's actually a lot roomier than the buckets and if there's only 2 people that center section is a great place for a small cooler if your taking an extended cruise. :)

[Carnivalride]

Well nothing to exciting but I get the new set up fired up yesterday and she runs. :D

The good: no leaks - oil, gas or water :)

The expected - she's fat as a pig and will need some additional tuning. :rolleyes:

Anyway I'll get or order some powervalves today and take another shot at tuning the idle off idle stuff again tonight or tomorrow night. Pulls 5 inches of vacum as compared to the 6.5 with the old set up. It's trying to idle but I think the plugs a little wet from running at 2000rpm for a while to make sure the old flat tappet cam stayed oiled well. She's nasty fat in the 1500-2500rpm range probably partially due to the 6.5 stock powervalves. Oh well I knew better but tried them anyway, now I know they won't work for this application. LOL

[RiverRacer]

That's a simple fix, just a slight adjustment on the...... Oh never mind, sorry I was thinking about something else, my bad!..:D

[hydroguy]

I'm running a tunnel ram with two 750 Barry Grant TR's and use the blank PV's and it runs FB. Try that.

[Carnivalride]

That's a simple fix, just a slight adjustment on the...... Oh never mind, sorry I was thinking about something else, my bad!..:D Oh let me guess injection maybe?

[Carnivalride]

I'm running a tunnel ram with two 750 Barry Grant TR's and use the blank PV's and it runs FB. Try that.


Runs FB? Not sure what that means :o

I was goinng to try the powervalves first because I always liked them on my single 4 application once it was tuned. Your not the first one to tell me to scrap them and go with plugs on this deal though.

And then there's Art telling me to scrap the semi-controlled fuel leaks all together. :rolleyes: ;)

[RiverRacer]

Oh let me guess injection maybe?

Hmmmmm, welll maybe??..:D

[RiverRacer]

And then there's Art telling me to scrap the semi-controlled fuel leaks all together. :rolleyes: ;)

LMAO!..:D:D

[Carnivalride]

Updated pictures of the project. If the weather holds for the weekend actual water testing will begin. :D
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w251/carnivalride/Scoop%20mountings/IMG_2795-1.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w251/carnivalride/Scoop%20mountings/IMG_2797-1.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w251/carnivalride/Scoop%20mountings/IMG_2799-1.jpg

[SPUN1]

Cool pic's, thank's for all the update's. Geeezz i see all these cool looking engine's make's me want to go drop mine in the middle of the lake.:D

[hydroguy]

Runs FB? Not sure what that means

Fine business. :)

[RiverRacer]

Cool pic's, thank's for all the update's. Geeezz i see all these cool looking engine's make's me want to go drop mine in the middle of the lake.:D

Nahhh you don't want to do that, just bling it up a tad that's all, LOL..:D

[Carnivalride]

Cool pic's, thank's for all the update's. Geeezz i see all these cool looking engine's make's me want to go drop mine in the middle of the lake.:D

Thanks, with I could take better pictures my floor always looks washed out. :confused:

Hey don't drop it in the lake if it runs it's nothing a liquid rebuild and a few $$$ in bling can't fix. LOL :D

[RiverRacer]

Updated pictures of the project. If the weather holds for the weekend actual water testing will begin.
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w251/carnivalride/Scoop%20mountings/IMG_2795-1.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w251/carnivalride/Scoop%20mountings/IMG_2797-1.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w251/carnivalride/Scoop%20mountings/IMG_2799-1.jpg

That looks great Loren, good luck testing!..:cool:

[Carnivalride]

Runs FB? Not sure what that means

Fine business. :) Well I'm planning on going out Saturday and see how this deal runs. Hopefully I have enough stuff to at least rough in a decent tune. :)

[Carnivalride]

That looks great Loren, good luck testing!..:cool:
Thanks Art :)

[RiverRacer]

Thanks Art :)

If it runs as good as it looks, it should scream!..;)

[Terrible toy]

Good luck Loren, should be a rush. Have you or anyone here heard about or tried the new anti vibration shear plates? Some are making claims of HP gains using them.

[FC-Pilot]

Good luck Loren, should be a rush. Have you or anyone here heard about or tried the new anti vibration shear plates? Some are making claims of HP gains using them.

It is a rage that some of the circle track guys are doing. I first heard about them five years ago from our machinist that just happens to have NASCAR connections. It would be fun to play with:D I don't recall what (if any) HP increase was.:confused:

Paul

[Carnivalride]

Thanks for the compliments guys :)

Art I hope your right on the screaming part. I just hate to get to optomistic and then end up being disappointed. This little deal ended up snowballing into more work than I originally figured it would be. Guess if I could just bolt parts on it would go faster. LOL

Bill I'm not sure what an anti vibration shear plate is. Do you mean the shear plates that are put under the carbs on tunnel ram applications to help reduce reversion?

Paul do you have any pictures of this "anti vibration shear plate"?

[RiverRacer]

Thanks for the compliments guys :)

Art I hope your right on the screaming part. I just hate to get to optomistic and then end up being disappointed. This little deal ended up snowballing into more work than I originally figured it would be. Guess if I could just bolt parts on it would go faster. LOL

Well, that is something you never know until you try it, sometimes it works, sometimes it don't, all part of the fun right!..:D

[FC-Pilot]

Thanks for the compliments guys :)

Bill I'm not sure what an anti vibration shear plate is. Do you mean the shear plates that are put under the carbs on tunnel ram applications to help reduce reversion?

Paul do you have any pictures of this "anti vibration shear plate"?

Loren, I have seen them set up two different ways. The first was basically a carb spacer that had o-rings sealing it. The trick was to not crank it tight and just let the o-rings work to absorb the shock and vibrations. I saw a short one on a car that was the size of a shear plate, but because it was bolted up I could not really see how it worked. Sorry I don't have any real info, but maybe Bill does.

Loren, how is the scoop held on? Do you have an internal setup off of the typical air cleaner bolts?

Paul

[Carnivalride]

Loren, how is the scoop held on? Do you have an internal setup off of the typical air cleaner bolts?

Paul

Right now by gravity :p I'm not sure I trust something internal off the carb studs. I'm thinking about making some angle brackets that would go from the corner studs and then I could make a rod or strap to tie into something more substantial on the engine.

Any feelings here on what it takes to hold a scoop on in the 100-105mph range?

[Terrible toy]

Thanks for the compliments guys :)

Art I hope your right on the screaming part. I just hate to get to optomistic and then end up being disappointed. This little deal ended up snowballing into more work than I originally figured it would be. Guess if I could just bolt parts on it would go faster. LOL

Bill I'm not sure what an anti vibration shear plate is. Do you mean the shear plates that are put under the carbs on tunnel ram applications to help reduce reversion?

Paul do you have any pictures of this "anti vibration shear plate"?

I know some Pro Stock racers are supposed to be using them. I understand the theory is that they prevent the carburetors from leaning and fattening as an engine harmonics at different rpms. I don't fully understand how this problem occurs. Maybe the fuel is agitated enough that at times it is uncovering the jets and at other times blowing out the vents ???

I bought a engine vacuum pump from Ollie Volpe at RWRP, he's making them and also claims they add horse power. I told him that I already had shear plates on the motor and he said these function as shear plates and as isolaters.

If Paul has some pics of them maybe see how they are constructed. I have Magna Fuel shear plates and they come with 1/8 thick semi soft rubber gaskets. I think that would provide vibration isolation enough. When I get this car running up and down the track I will look at the EGTs and O2 data and see if I can tell if the thing is doing what they say.

I do know that a dry sump and engine vacuum system is good for considerable horse power.:cool:

[Terrible toy]

Loren if you remember the pics I posted of my manifold I had made a plate to fit between the manifold and shear plates. I bought four wing turnbuckles from Ed Quay Race Cars that come with stainless brackets that I bolted to the bottom of the scoop and the top of the plate. (I glassed in in the inside of the scoop hard points of .065 AL sheet metal) They're cool little stainless turnbuckles that take 10/32 allen head screws.

The car is going to (optimism reigns here) top 185 mph and I expect them to hold fine. Actually I had similar type hold downs on a number of boats with carbs.

[FC-Pilot]

Sorry Bill and Loren, we do not have any pics of them. If I run into the two guys that are in the know I will see if I can get some info and pics for you two. I don't remember all the info that was talked about, but I think (like Bill said) harmonics had something to do with it, but I can't remember if it was airating the fuel unevenly or what. Like I said, if I get the chance to talk to them I will get the details.

Paul

[Carnivalride]

Loren if you remember the pics I posted of my manifold I had made a plate to fit between the manifold and shear plates. I bought four wing turnbuckles from Ed Quay Race Cars that come with stainless brackets that I bolted to the bottom of the scoop and the top of the plate. (I glassed in in the inside of the scoop hard points of .065 AL sheet metal) They're cool little stainless turnbuckles that take 10/32 allen head screws.
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll317/terribletoy/carbsscoop.jpg

The car is going to (optimism reigns here) top 185 mph and I expect them to hold fine. Actually I had similar type hold downs on a number of boats with carbs.

I remember that Bill and was thinking seriously about something like that but was trying to get a little cleaner look. Although if your attaching at 4 corners I don't think it can be done any neater than you did it. Still kicking around what I want to do....

[RiverRacer]

I remember that Bill and was thinking seriously about something like that but was trying to get a little cleaner look. Although if your attaching at 4 corners I don't think it can be done any neater than you did it. Still kicking around what I want to do....

Hey Loren, I killed two birds with one stone on mine, I used hex stock and made stand offs from the carb studs, they tightened down the carbs and the scoop base plate attached to them, was a clean setup and sure wasn't going anywhere!..

[Carnivalride]

Hey Loren, I killed two birds with one stone on mine, I used hex stock and made stand offs from the carb studs, they tightened down the carbs and the scoop base plate attached to them, was a clean setup and sure wasn't going anywhere!..

Art I thought about that but my fancy contoured base plate isn't flat until being past the carb mounting holes. At the time of design I didn't want to shrink my radius so on to plan B.

[RiverRacer]

Art I thought about that but my fancy contoured base plate isn't flat until being past the carb mounting holes. At the time of design I didn't want to shrink my radius so on to plan B.

Oh well, it was a thought!...:D

[Terrible toy]

Loren they are not in the pic you posted, but the bottom of the turnbuckles have small pit pins holding that end. The reason for that is to be able to quickly get the scoop off after each round.

[Carnivalride]

Ok well here's a quick update. I took it out to our local lake today to shake it down and make a few passes.

First impressions:
* More cold blooded than before
* Much more responsive than I figured it would be (almost to the point of being twitchy)
* Still needs some discharge nozzle/pump cam work but it absolutely screams from 2500rpm or higher when you mash it.
* Flashes 300rpm higher even with a passenger
* Pulls another 100rpm than it did before

So things look very promising for the new induction set up!
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w251/carnivalride/IMG_2805.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w251/carnivalride/IMG_2810.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w251/carnivalride/IMG_2813.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w251/carnivalride/IMG_2814.jpg

[FC-Pilot]

Congrats Loren. There is nothing better than seeing all your hard work pay off.

Paul

[grayson]

Great reading, thanks heaps for posting, look forward to hearing more :cool:

[RiverRacer]

Congrats Loren, sounds like it went real well for the first time out!..:cool:

[Carnivalride]

Thanks guys I was pretty pumped for a first trip out. :D

I figure I better buy a pair of 32 discharge nozzles (afraid to drill my 31's because I might need them where my 28's are...and maybe not). The 35's were too much blubbers a little and blows some black. Or maybe I need some 31's in the back to. I always end up sorting this out almost by trial and error. :o

Also that "spare" ignition is leaking oil past the shaft and out of the weep hole on the bottom. If nothing else I'll put my old one back in thats unpolished. LOL

Need to remember the GPS next time and hopefully the wind will be calm or out of a direction I can do a clean kill aimed at the launch ramp.

[RiverRacer]

I always end up sorting this out almost by trial and error. :o

Pretty much what you gotta do, I used to look for squirters at the swap meets and pick up stock ones and keep them in the tool box, that way I always had some to play with if needed!...:D

[gfinishline]

Looks good! Loren, when we went to race at cold places we used a towel for the choke. On the first start up of the day, lay a towel over the air scoop, and let it cover the inlet area too. Give -'er 3 or 4 full pumps and then crank. Rest your foot on the throttle to raise the idle (2K?) and just let the air go thru the towel. This way you don't need to keep 'working the pumps' to keep it running or backfiring. (whichever it does best) After that you should have enough idle mixture fuel for the rest of the day.

[Carnivalride]

Looks good! Loren, when we went to race at cold places we used a towel for the choke. On the first start up of the day, lay a towel over the air scoop, and let it cover the inlet area too. Give -'er 3 or 4 full pumps and then crank. Rest your foot on the throttle to raise the idle (2K?) and just let the air go thru the towel. This way you don't need to keep 'working the pumps' to keep it running or backfiring. (whichever it does best) After that you should have enough idle mixture fuel for the rest of the day.

Thanks for the tip, I haven't had any backfire issues but starting with locked timing isn't as easy as when it had a curve. Still learning the tricks on this new deal. Flooded it at a Saturday night car show on the way back from the lake, double the squirters means it floods twice as fast. LOL It did start but she blew black when she lit off. :o

[RiverRacer]

starting with locked timing isn't as easy as when it had a curve.

No $hit, you're not running a blower, why on earth would you want to have a locked out distributor for??..:confused:

[Carnivalride]

No $hit, you're not running a blower, why on earth would you want to have a locked out distributor for??..:confused: Because it idles better. Just experimenting Art you should know by now I'm one of the hard headed ones that just has to try stuff for myself. LOL

[RiverRacer]

Because it idles better. Just experimenting Art you should know by now I'm one of the hard headed ones that just has to try stuff for myself. LOL

Yep you're right I should know better by now, LOL.:D Put enough lead in the distributor and it'll idle good without being locked out!..:D

[Carnivalride]

Yep you're right I should know better by now, LOL.:D Put enough lead in the distributor and it'll idle good without being locked out!..:D

Maybe so but it works really well this way once it's fired up. :D

For lake usage I will have to switch back to the one I have the custom curve in though. However the locked one also takes another variable out while I'm trying to sort out the dual carb thing and get a good baseline though. ;)

[SPUN1]

Loren, looks great! lot's of hard work is paying off, keep up the good's.:cool:

[Terrible toy]

I never wanted to mess with a cold engine banging on the starter with a locked out ignition in a ski boat. Most always used them in race stuff, especially, as Art alluded to, with blowers. My last two cars have used the MSD (hope this won't start another mag vs electronic war:D) ignition retard for starting, :cool:.

[Carnivalride]

I never wanted to mess with a cold engine banging on the starter with a locked out ignition in a ski boat. Most always used them in race stuff, especially, as Art alluded to, with blowers. My last two cars have used the MSD (hope this won't start another mag vs electronic war ignition retard for starting, :cool:.
Well the MSD with a rev limiter and the start retard is what I'm wanting next after a new prop. LOL :D

Remember mine just a ski boat with bark so I guess that means I need to put the one with the curve back in. :p :rolleyes:

[gfinishline]

Way back before all the Catalog, NASA, Ebay shit came down, we would set up our distributors on a "SUN" machine. For a 'deal' like your's I would set it up to crank at 8/10 degrees, then weld on weight-springs- combination of whatever stuff, to make the BIG timing come in at 600RPMs. 600RPMs is below idle speed and above cranking speed, this will not KILL your starters! "locked timing" may be great for race boats, but it can be a real problem for 'play boats'. ART! Those mags do have 20 degrees to play with, don't they? (those old time guys weren't so dumb!)

[RiverRacer]

Well the MSD with a rev limiter and the start retard is what I'm wanting

May I suggest a custom tow rope to along with that!...:D:D

[RiverRacer]

ART! Those mags do have 20 degrees to play with, don't they? (those old time guys weren't so dumb!)

George, I've got 22 in one of mine and all in by 2500, works great!...

[Carnivalride]

Way back before all the Catalog, NASA, Ebay shit came down, we would set up our distributors on a "SUN" machine. For a 'deal' like your's I would set it up to crank at 8/10 degrees, then weld on weight-springs- combination of whatever stuff, to make the BIG timing come in at 600RPMs. 600RPMs is below idle speed and above cranking speed, this will not KILL your starters! "locked timing" may be great for race boats, but it can be a real problem for 'play boats'. ART! Those mags do have 20 degrees to play with, don't they? (those old time guys weren't so dumb!)

Well I haven't welded additional weight yet but I am only running one light spring (one side only) this helped but I only get about 28* at 1200rpm, by approx 1800rpm I have the 38* and initial timing of the starter is 12*. So maybe I need to add to the weights.

By the way I do know how to use the "Sun" machine and that's how I set my dwell on these dual points.

[Carnivalride]

May I suggest a custom tow rope to along with that!...:D:D


If I still had that Vertx mag I'd take you up on that custom tow rope. :D

[RiverRacer]

If I still had that Vertx mag I'd take you up on that custom tow rope. :D

You definitely wouldn't need one then, LOL...:D

[gfinishline]

I saw "a set of dual points" in last month's Playboy Magazine HA HA! Loren, what are you doing? Test some stuff, like Pertronics or something, but please try to stay away from MSD. Or buy a rope!

[Carnivalride]

I saw "a set of dual points" in last month's Playboy Magazine HA HA! Loren, what are you doing? Test some stuff, like Pertronics or something, but please try to stay away from MSD. Or buy a rope!

George the type of "dual point" your talking about has caused me nothing but headaches and financial hardship. LOL :D

What am I doing? Kinda plugging away with my testing, right now just trying to get this tunnel ram dialed in but my kids have kept me on the run so much this year I just got everything back together less than a month ago. :o

I've considered the Pertronix and may try it this spring because I really think a prop like you suggested will make more difference than an ignition system. And yes I get some razzing over still having points........... :eek::cool:

[RiverRacer]

I really think a prop like you suggested will make more difference than an ignition system.

BUT, you have to be able to fire up the motor first!... Sorry couldn't resist,LOL..:D:D

[Carnivalride]

BUT, you have to be able to fire up the motor first!... Sorry couldn't resist,LOL..:D

It started last time out! :D:D:D

[Terrible toy]

George mentioned SUN machines and it brought up a memory. When I first started boat racing I had a friend who owned a auto repair business. He had a SUN distributer testing machine and invited me to bring my Vertex mag down to test. That particular mag had advance in it so I took it to him to see the curve in action.

Well his sun machine was really struggling to get the mag to spin very fast. He takes the cap off, puts a load on it and for some reason leans over the mag. A blue arc shot right to his forehead knocking him flat on his ass. Gave both us a whole new respect for a mags power.:D

[pwderman]

George mentioned SUN machines and it brought up a memory. When I first started boat racing I had a friend who owned a auto repair business. He had a SUN distributer testing machine and invited me to bring my Vertex mag down to test. That particular mag had advance in it so I took it to him to see the curve in action.

Well his sun machine was really struggling to get the mag to spin very fast. He takes the cap off, puts a load on it and for some reason leans over the mag. A blue arc shot right to his forehead knocking him flat on his ass. Gave both us a whole new respect for a mags power.:D

OH YA...:eek:... never got hit in the forehead but I've been nailed plenty of times just dropping it in the motor it gets your attention...:eek::mad:

[RiverRacer]

After the second time doing that, I made a little jumper to ground it out while installing the mag, no more of that zapping $hit!..LOL..:D

[pwderman]

After the second time doing that, I made a little jumper to ground it out while installing the mag, no more of that zapping $hit!..LOL..:D

Hey Art, your forking smarter than me, took three hits...:eek::D just farting with it and it'll nail you it only takes one click...:mad:

[RiverRacer]

Hey Art, your forking smarter than me, took three hits...:eek::D just farting with it and it'll nail you it only takes one click...:mad:

Got that right, learned to respect them real quick, LOL..:D

[Carnivalride]

just farting with it and it'll nail you it only takes one click...:mad:

Dam you all talk like this and the one I had NEVER worked like that. :confused: It was sent back to VERTEX and they said the coil was bad and replaced it, a year later it quit again, back to VERTEX again but for $200 now (1993 time frame) it dies another year later so off to a "Race shop in St Louis" for another $200 coil installation. That time it ran almost 2 years and died again. :mad: Yes I know plug gap is supposed to be .018-.020" and it was after the first failure.

I know these run in everything from airplanes to farm equipment but the on I had sucked and it blows my mind how some of you can say they run for 20 years with no problems. Guess I got the POS that I had was made Monday with a hangover but 2 trips to the factory to repair/refurbish and then once to a race shop and nobody could fix it? You can keep them unless I were to run blown alcohol I'll never run one again.

Carry on ;)

[pwderman]

Dam you all talk like this and the one I had NEVER worked like that. :confused: It was sent back to VERTEX and they said the coil was bad and replaced it, a year later it quit again, back to VERTEX again but for $200 now (1993 time frame) it dies another year later so off to a "Race shop in St Louis" for another $200 coil installation. That time it ran almost 2 years and died again. :mad: Yes I know plug gap is supposed to be .018-.020" and it was after the first failure.

I know these run in everything from airplanes to farm equipment but the on I had sucked and it blows my mind how some of you can say they run for 20 years with no problems. Guess I got the POS that I had was made Monday with a hangover but 2 trips to the factory to repair/refurbish and then once to a race shop and nobody could fix it? You can keep them unless I were to run blown alcohol I'll never run one again.

Carry on ;)

Can you say LEMON...:mad: I guess I'd probably feel the same way if it were me. I got mine around 1960 the coil's been done once other than fixing what somebody else screwed up (siezed oil pump and twisted the shaft) it's never let me down...

[RiverRacer]

Well, I guess you can get a LEMON in anything, but I have a hard time believing that more than one coill would only last "one" year??, I got to say that something had to be killing the coil somehow, weather it was internal or external????...

[Carnivalride]

Well, I guess you can get a LEMON in anything, but I have a hard time believing that more than one coill would only last "one" year??, I got to say that something had to be killing the coil somehow, weather it was internal or external????...

I can't say but I even tried a new set of solid core wires even though the old ones (just over a year old checked fine). Tried several different plugs, autolite, champion racing and NGK. All I can figure is the internal magnets had to have something wrong or been weak. But the customer service sucked and lasting less than a year, then to send it back to the factory and have it refurbished under warranty and then have it go down a year later. Sorry all that left I really bad taste in my mouth maybe it was from eating so much crow when I got towed in by jet boats and tri hullsd or that I ran an stock HEI as much as my new high dollar Vertex mag. :(

[RiverRacer]

I can't say but I even tried a new set of solid core wires even though the old ones (just over a year old checked fine). Tried several different plugs, autolite, champion racing and NGK. All I can figure is the internal magnets had to have something wrong or been weak. But the customer service sucked and lasting less than a year, then to send it back to the factory and have it refurbished under warranty and then have it go down a year later. Sorry all that left I really bad taste in my mouth maybe it was from eating so much crow when I got towed in by jet boats and tri hullsd or that I ran an stock HEI as much as my new high dollar Vertex mag. :(

Should have sent it to Zig!.. You still have it???.. :confused:

[pwderman]

I can't say but I even tried a new set of solid core wires even though the old ones (just over a year old checked fine). Tried several different plugs, autolite, champion racing and NGK. All I can figure is the internal magnets had to have something wrong or been weak. But the customer service sucked and lasting less than a year, then to send it back to the factory and have it refurbished under warranty and then have it go down a year later. Sorry all that left I really bad taste in my mouth maybe it was from eating so much crow when I got towed in by jet boats and tri hullsd or that I ran an stock HEI as much as my new high dollar Vertex mag. :(

Who'd you send it to??? I don't think it was Hunt or Zig?

[Terrible toy]

I'll stir the pot some more... Mags are hard on bronze gears.

[RiverRacer]

I'll stir the pot some more... Mags are hard on bronze gears.

They are????..:confused: I won't tell you how long I've had mine then!..:eek::D

[pwderman]

I'll stir the pot some more... Mags are hard on bronze gears.

Your right Bill, they are hard on CHEAP bronze gears...:eek:...that's how my mag got screwed up. the guy I loaned it to was using a roller,I wasn't, so he changed out the gear to a bronze (read cheap) that lost the teeth in turn seizing up the pump and turning the shaft in the mag into a corkscrew...:mad::mad:

[Terrible toy]

Your right Bill, they are hard on CHEAP bronze gears...:eek:...that's how my mag got screwed up. the guy I loaned it to was using a roller,I wasn't, so he changed out the gear to a bronze (read cheap) that lost the teeth in turn seizing up the pump and turning the shaft in the mag into a corkscrew...:mad::mad:

Ouch!! Actually I've never had a problem with a bronze gear in a race vehicle or ski boat. I did wear one out in a street vehicle that had a Mallory MagII in it. I built a CJ 5 with a very stout roller cammed 468 with a Dana 60 rear and Muncie M22 adapted to the transfer case. Wild ride, never did see top speed in the damn thing. It would get real light on the front wheels as you headed north of 100.

What that Jeep did was show me some weaknesses in after market speed parts. I had the bronze gear wear out. Lost two of the Mallory drive connectors. Shelled two Crane roller rockers and lost a lobe on the cam, all in the space of 5000 miles.

[Norseman]

OH YA...... never got hit in the forehead but I've been nailed plenty of times just dropping it in the motor it gets your attention..:


My son, who was 6 at the time, got nailed pretty good with the Vertex out of the hemi. :(:mad:

His 10 year old sister had him hold the plug wires while she turned the gear. :eek::eek:

[Carnivalride]

Should have sent it to Zig!.. You still have it???.. :confused:

No it was all I could do to keep from throwing it in the lake in my younger days. Lost another race because of it losing fire and I missed my index by 4/10ths. :mad: I swore I'd never run that POS again and sold it, yes I did tell the guy the coil was out.

[Carnivalride]

Who'd you send it to??? I don't think it was Hunt or Zig? It was a sprint car place in St Louis Missouri been to many years to recall the name. I sold that damn thing around 95 or 96 because at that time it logged less time in my engine than a borrowed stock HEI and the Mallory Dual point had. :eek:

[pwderman]

My son, who was 6 at the time, got nailed pretty good with the Vertex out of the hemi. :(:mad:

His 10 year old sister had him hold the plug wires while she turned the gear. :eek::eek:

A little sibling rivalry there...LOL
I used to use Rajah clips on the plug wires, the old guys will know what I'm talking about, and my brother in-law was messing around with the mag sitting on the bench and didn't notice the wires were up against his leg...he found out all you need to know about mags...LOL...He was 10-11 at the time and I'd told him don't screw with the mag I guess he found out why...

[pwderman]

Ouch!! Actually I've never had a problem with a bronze gear in a race vehicle or ski boat. I did wear one out in a street vehicle that had a Mallory MagII in it. I built a CJ 5 with a very stout roller cammed 468 with a Dana 60 rear and Muncie M22 adapted to the transfer case. Wild ride, never did see top speed in the damn thing. It would get real light on the front wheels as you headed north of 100.

What that Jeep did was show me some weaknesses in after market speed parts. I had the bronze gear wear out. Lost two of the Mallory drive connectors. Shelled two Crane roller rockers and lost a lobe on the cam, all in the space of 5000 miles.

That sucks big time...:(

[Norseman]

[QUOTE=pwderman;15453]A little sibling rivalry there...LOL
QUOTE]

Maybe just a little!!:D:D

[RiverRacer]

I used to use Rajah clips on the plug wires, the old guys will know what I'm talking about

Hey, I read about those in the history books!..:D:D

[RiverRacer]

No it was all I could do to keep from throwing it in the lake in my younger days. Lost another race because of it losing fire and I missed my index by 4/10ths. :mad: I swore I'd never run that POS again and sold it, yes I did tell the guy the coil was out.

Bummer I was going to buy it from ya!..:D I went one step further than you, I threw a brand new POS MSD(3 passes)in the river, it's still there somewhere by the dam at Bluewater, you're more than welcome to it!..:D:D

[pwderman]

Hey, I read about those in the history books!..:D:D

Sure you didn't use some...:D:D

[RiverRacer]

Sure you didn't use some...:D:D

Well, maybe just a few, LOL....:D:D

[pwderman]

I saw some on a rat rod awhile back had a flathead in it...

[RiverRacer]

You can still buy them today!..

[pwderman]

I think I still have some...LOL

[RiverRacer]

I think I still have some...LOL

I may have some too buried somewhere,lol...

[pwderman]

I'll have to take a pic so the kids will know what we're talking about...unless you got one handy???

[RiverRacer]

You kiddin, I can hardly find my current stuff let alone old stuff the way my shop is with no room(I did have room once though), LOL But here's some new ones!..

Rajah! (http://www.speedwaymotors.com/p/8490,931_Rajah-7mm-Spark-Plug-Straight-Wire-Ends.html)

[Carnivalride]

Bummer I was going to buy it from ya!..:D I went one step further than you, I threw a brand new POS MSD(3 passes)in the river, it's still there somewhere by the dam at Bluewater, you're more than welcome to it!..:D:D


LOL, well I've always been broke or budget challenged and very rarely delibrately destroyed or threw away parts that might be sellable. :o

[RiverRacer]

LOL, well I've always been broke or budget challenged and very rarely delibrately destroyed or threw away parts that might be sellable. :o

Well, that's me to a tee, LOL, but after two money races in a row, I sorta lost my head there for a minute!..LOL..:D

[Carnivalride]

Well, that's me to a tee, LOL, but after two money races in a row, I sorta lost my head there for a minute!..LOL..:D
I know the feeling that mag had me just about there......... :eek:

[RiverRacer]

I know the feeling that mag had me just about there......... :eek:

Wish I would have been there I would have taken it off your hands, and I probably would be still running it today, LOL...:D

[Carnivalride]

Wish I would have been there I would have taken it off your hands, and I probably would be still running it today, LOL...:D
ROFLMAO I call BS on that one! It was a dud from the factory and they couldn't fix it after 2 returns and then another shop couldn't. Face it it would be at the bottom of some lake or river just like that MSD you hated. ;):D

[RiverRacer]

ROFLMAO I call BS on that one! It was a dud from the factory and they couldn't fix it after 2 returns and then another shop couldn't. Face it it would be at the bottom of some lake or river just like that MSD you hated. ;):D

Nope, I'd a sent it to Zig and he would have fixed it, it's just a bunch of parts and done right it works, and it would still be running today garonteed!..:D

[pwderman]

Nope, I'd a sent it to Zig and he would have fixed it, it's just a bunch of parts and done right it works, and it would still be running today garonteed!..:D

And they ain't electronic...:p:D:D

[RiverRacer]

And they ain't electronic...:p:D:D

ZACTLY!...:D

[Carnivalride]

Nope, I'd a sent it to Zig and he would have fixed it, it's just a bunch of parts and done right it works, and it would still be running today garonteed!..:D


If you say so but if Vertex could have fixed it I wouldn't be here today bad mouthing their product. Like someone said earlier "Lemon" :(

[RiverRacer]

If you say so but if Vertex could have fixed it I wouldn't be here today bad mouthing their product. Like someone said earlier "Lemon" :(

I still don't buy it, something was killing it and I bet it was something stupid simple that it got overlooked or unnoticed!..

[Carnivalride]

I still don't buy it, something was killing it and I bet it was something stupid simple that it got overlooked or unnoticed!..
Your probably right and at this point in my life I would have disassembled it to see if I could figure out what made it tick but like I said it's long gone.....

[RiverRacer]

Your probably right and at this point in my life I would have disassembled it to see if I could figure out what made it tick but like I said it's long gone.....

And on to newer adventures!..:D

[Carnivalride]

And on to newer adventures!..:D


Kinda taking it easy today it's too windy for testing so I checked the valve lash and shined up the valve covers..............

[RiverRacer]

Well, it was windy and cold here too didn't get much done either!..:rolleyes:

[Carnivalride]

Well, it was windy and cold here too didn't get much done either!..:rolleyes:

That sucks and now today it's windy and drizzling......... So much for boat testing this weekend. :(

[RiverRacer]

That sucks and now today it's windy and drizzling......... So much for boat testing this weekend. :(

Guess all that $hit went your way, was pretty nice and clear here today just cold!..:(

[Carnivalride]

Oh well all this safety talk gave me a chance to polish up the prop and give it a really good look over. Guess I'll see about getting it mag'd just for GP.

[gfinishline]

That's what I thought you said, "X-ray'd" right???? Local airports have repair shops and they know who is able to X-ray metallic parts. (at reasonable prices) Magnaflux is a SURFACE CRACK DETECTOR and not a true method of finding metal or welding fatigue. "Safety is as safety does!" PLEASE!!!

[Carnivalride]

That's what I thought you said, "X-ray'd" right???? Local airports have repair shops and they know who is able to X-ray metallic parts. (at reasonable prices) Magnaflux is a SURFACE CRACK DETECTOR and not a true method of finding metal or welding fatigue. "Safety is as safety does!" PLEASE!!!

Ok George how much should I expect to pay to x-ray a prop? My first estimate was $150-200, still waiting on the other estimates.

How many views do you usually ask for?

Thanks,
Loren

[gfinishline]

I'd say two angles is enough. Front to rear and across the blades (90 degrees to the first). You don't want an 'aircraft or USAC stamp', nor a "tooth cleaning" (HA HA) with it just 2 photos that show what's INSIDE. I was paying B&G Detection in Burbank Calif $30.00 about 15 years ago. Just photos WITHOUT the little stamp mark, means they are NOT LIABLE for any errors durring inspection. NO liability = cheap prices!