Cavitation Plate Help Needed

[dry]

Ok, I don't mean to sound so ignorant here but i come from a high performance outboard background and now own my 1st V-drive. The cavitation plate and the 2 pedals i really don't understand. If you have 2 pedals 1 for up and 1 for down but yet the plate seems to be fixed by being attached to hull and all the struts across the rear.With that being said can someone please explain how the pedals and plate work together or is the plate appearing to be in a fixed position just an illusion on my part. I would greatly appreciate any explanation before i put this Bad Boy in the water.:confused:

[poncho]

launch the damn thing and step on the pedals super fast learnin there,i dont think findin what they do is the hard part its more figuring why?

[TonkaDriver]

The pedals are attached to a shaft that is in turn attached to a lever on the rod that all those turnbuckles on the plate attach to. when you step on the up pedal the lever flexes the plate up. When you step on the down pedal it flexes the plate down. The pedals are used to control the attitude of the bow of the boat. Down usually to turn or keep the boat from flying through waves and up to free the boat up on smooth water for speed. If your boat is setup correctly, once you learn how to use the pedals you will be able to get the most out of your boat. This is a very basic explanation. People like Art use the pedals to get the boat to take a set and then nail the throttle. Set the locking lever neutral and play with the pedals and you will see real quick what they do to the handling of your boat.

Hope this helps,

Kurt

[Terrible toy]

OK, I'm confused, and that's not unusual, so bear with me on this question.:confused:

I've seen some references, here and on another site, about up pedals and down pedals. From reading these I'm getting the impression that there is a style of foot pedal that moves the plate up by pushing on it. In my boats, ski and race, I've only seen three types of pedal systems. The one I preferred in a drag boat was a single pedal with heavy springs that would hold the plate in the up position against the force of the water trying to pull it down at high speed. I also used in racing two pedals where the left pedal pushes the plate down and releasing it let the plate move up to the stop. The only thing the right (up) pedal did was lock the plate in the full up position, again so it wouldn't suck down. The third kind of pedal I've used was in ski boats where you had, in addition to two pedals, a lock handle that would allow you to lock the plate in any position.

So, can someone enlighten me about who makes pedals where one pedal mechanically pushes the plate up, how they work and why the heck you would want one.

(The reason I liked the single pedal was because your foot is always on the down pedal and you could react faster if the boat got too high)

[FC-Pilot]

All the info given is good. If Art, George or Ray don't get to this before too long I will give my explanation to see if we can all get on the same page.

Paul

[dry]

two pedals where the left pedal pushes the plate down and releasing it let the plate move up to the stop. The only thing the right (up) pedal did was lock the plate in the full up position, again so it wouldn't suck down.

The above statement may be what mine are.......I am just rying to figure all this out before i get her wet for the 1st time....and the fact there is not a hinge on the plate is really confusing me because it appears all the pedals do is flex the plate???

[Terrible toy]

Yep, the plate just bends from where ever they are bolted to the bottom of the boat. With a built 521 you are going to need the plate to have some bend in it when you get heavy on the go pedal, otherwise this can happen. :eek:

[FC-Pilot]

two pedals where the left pedal pushes the plate down and releasing it let the plate move up to the stop. The only thing the right (up) pedal did was lock the plate in the full up position, again so it wouldn't suck down.

The above statement may be what mine are.......I am just rying to figure all this out before i get her wet for the 1st time....and the fact there is not a hinge on the plate is really confusing me because it appears all the pedals do is flex the plate???

Yep! The only reason to use the up peddle is to keep the plates from sucking down (which happens at high speeds). Most just use strong springs to keep this from happening, that way they only use one peddle (the down peddle). The handle is nice to have when you are just putting around towing skiers and such and don't want the boat bouncing while you do that. Also TT was correct about the plate flexing when you step on the down peddle. (Now if I can only learn as much as he has:rolleyes::D).

Paul

[SonnyGlide]

I have 2 in my Sanger,:D up&down, the rod also has a slip collar that can B slid on the shaft, and set by tighten'n the 2 allen set screws on the collar.
theres a heavy plate bolted to the stringer, forward of the plates is the slip collar and 5 hinged plates that can B lifted/rotated between the heavy plate and collar once U hit the down to adjust the down postion.
on the other side of the heavy plate is a strong spring & slip collar so I can adjust peddle/plate pressure.
my Q: is this, If I want ot use the sm. adjusting tangs to set the down, the slip collar has 2B up against the Heavy plate on the stringer, when I use the down, the slip collar moves forward thus allowing me to rotate a number of tangs between the plate an collar, but in this situation, theres no Up aval.< unless I move the slip collar forward on the shaft< now I have both up & down aval. but I cant use the tangs at all now.
If I plan on HotRodden around, no skiers, should I leave the collar forward to use both up & down, and tighten up the spring pressure so I dont suck the plate down or leave it for down only? :confused:

[dry]

I have 2 in my Sanger,:D up&down, the rod also has a slip collar that can B slid on the shaft, and set by tighten'n the 2 allen set screws on the collar.
theres a heavy plate bolted to the stringer, forward of the plates is the slip collar and 5 hinged plates that can B lifted/rotated between the heavy plate and collar once U hit the down to adjust the down postion.
on the other side of the heavy plate is a strong spring & slip collar so I can adjust peddle/plate pressure.
my Q: is this, If I want ot use the sm. adjusting tangs to set the down, the slip collar has 2B up against the Heavy plate on the stringer, when I use the down, the slip collar moves forward thus allowing me to rotate a number of tangs between the plate an collar, but in this situation, theres no Up aval.< unless I move the slip collar forward on the shaft< now I have both up & down aval. but I cant use the tangs at all now.
If I plan on HotRodden around, no skiers, should I leave the collar forward to use both up & down, and tighten up the spring pressure so I dont suck the plate down or leave it for down only? :confused:

My set up seems to be real similar to his except my springs are very long in the back about the length of the motor..........So if i understand everybody correctly the down plate is the main one to use??? which should be the right pedal?:eek:

[FC-Pilot]

On all the dual peddle setups I have seen the left peddle is the down peddle. As you sit in the boat and push the peddles, which one pulls the rod towards the front of the boat?

I tried to upload a picture of our peddle setup and explain what we have, but it was too big. Sorry.

Paul

[SonnyGlide]

this is my current set-up, notice the slip collar against the plate + adjustmnet tangs, in this position I have only "Down" no "Up", 2get "up" the slip collar needs2B slid forward on the shaft < in that set-up there is no use of the tangs, but both peddles work now.

[Terrible toy]

My set up seems to be real similar to his except my springs are very long in the back about the length of the motor..........So if i understand everybody correctly the down plate is the main one to use??? which should be the right pedal?:eek:

OK, I'm making a couple of assumptions here. That you are very new to flats and that you don't know the first thing about driving them. You said that you have been in performance outboards and I have no idea how that experience translates to driving a v-drive. So, with apologies up front if you are a record holding Formula One driver, I offer a few humble tips. (Yeah! like most flat drivers are humble)

The main thing is that I, and everyone else here, wants you to enjoy your new boat and not get into any bad situations. Believe me, a boat like yours can bite. Anything over 80 mph starts getting very serious, and your boat looks fully capable of that.

This is what I would do as a starting point (again, my humble opinion:o).

Adjust the plate: put a straight edge (3 or 4 ft.) under the boat from the back edge of the plate forward. Set the turnbuckles so the plate is about 1/8 inch up all the way across except for the two outside right ones. Set the far right turnbuckle down 1/4 inch and the one just inside it at 1/8. (this is to counteract the engine torque through the prop, assuming the flywheel is forward). Same settings for a runner bottom. If the plate is so far off that you have to make huge changes in turnbuckle length to get these settings you may have to adjust the rod stop split collar.

Prop/Gear: 11 1/4 X 15 steel two blade and 12 gears for going fast. (If you haven't driven your boat with a two blade yet they vibrate like hell when turning at slow speeds.) The prop/gear combo is just a suggestion, lots of combos would work fine. I would suggest getting the prop magna fluxed occasionally.

Pedals: the left pedal is the down the right is the lock. In a recreational setting getting on the up or lock is not necessary. Very few ski flats get run full boogie anything close to a full quarter mile. (I have only seen a few that can actually take a set) So, if your making a fun run stay on the down and you'll be ready to quickly plate the boat.

Driving: My method for launching was to use very little plate until I hammered the throttle. Then catch the nose at about 10 to 15 degrees above the horizon with however much plate it took to achieve that (we're talking very aggressive here). That would let the prop lift the tail and free up the boat early. Going down track as the plate becomes more effective I would roll out of the down pedal keeping the nose at about 5 degrees above the horizon. Usually all the way out at about 500 feet. I used much the same approach from Super Mod to BGF.

Above all start slow, practice, practice, practice, get to know the boat, what it does in various water states, winds, and speeds. This "unsolicited" advice is for very light boats but the principles should be the same. Aggressive moves at the start, quick subtle moves at speed. For example if the nose suddenly comes up while going balls out don't slam the throttle shut and jump hard on the plate but quickly catch the boat with just enough pedal to stop the lift and roll out of the gas.

Read you text book, there will be a test next Friday.:D:D

[FC-Pilot]

TT, Great advice!

Paul

[shooter2]

Excellent advice for sure. I would change a few things though. Bigger gears as that motor should scream with 12's in it. But that's niether here nor there.
A flat bottom with a 521 cid motor should be pretty quick. The mistake I made with my flat when I first started racing was to start right off with a 500 inc bbc. It is easier to learn how to drive one of these boats with less power. It lets you learn how the boat reacts and what you have to do in order to drive it fast and safe. My mistake was only learning how to drive it fast. The second weekend I went out of the boat in the first turn. Because I didnt know what I did wrong I didnt know what to correct. What I am trying to say here is take your time, learn the boat. Any idiot can whack the gas, but the smart ones learn what to do and when to do it.

Brian

[SonnyGlide]

I had 9's in the boat + 10.75 wheel on a 633hp 406, Sanger, it was a pretty wild ride 1st time out, didnt have enough plate travel, got 1in. now! saw plenty of Deck:D
I installed 15's 2day, and will B heading back out this thurs.
I'm gonna look at the plate set-up once more, I think it's set at netrual. and I'm gonna try to remember everything U suggested on launching the boat form idle,:eek: I havent flashed the prop yet, we'll C whats up:eek:

BTW, should I adjust the slip collar for "Down" only and 4get about "Up"?:rolleyes:

[dry]

OK, I'm making a couple of assumptions here. That you are very new to flats and that you don't know the first thing about driving them. You said that you have been in performance outboards and I have no idea how that experience translates to driving a v-drive. So, with apologies up front if you are a record holding Formula One driver, I offer a few humble tips. (Yeah! like most flat drivers are humble)

The main thing is that I, and everyone else here, wants you to enjoy your new boat and not get into any bad situations. Believe me, a boat like yours can bite. Anything over 80 mph starts getting very serious, and your boat looks fully capable of that.

This is what I would do as a starting point (again, my humble opinion:o).

Adjust the plate: put a straight edge (3 or 4 ft.) under the boat from the back edge of the plate forward. Set the turnbuckles so the plate is about 1/8 inch up all the way across except for the two outside right ones. Set the far right turnbuckle down 1/4 inch and the one just inside it at 1/8. (this is to counteract the engine torque through the prop, assuming the flywheel is forward). Same settings for a runner bottom. If the plate is so far off that you have to make huge changes in turnbuckle length to get these settings you may have to adjust the rod stop split collar.

Prop/Gear: 11 1/4 X 15 steel two blade and 12 gears for going fast. (If you haven't driven your boat with a two blade yet they vibrate like hell when turning at slow speeds.) The prop/gear combo is just a suggestion, lots of combos would work fine. I would suggest getting the prop magna fluxed occasionally.

Pedals: the left pedal is the down the right is the lock. In a recreational setting getting on the up or lock is not necessary. Very few ski flats get run full boogie anything close to a full quarter mile. (I have only seen a few that can actually take a set) So, if your making a fun run stay on the down and you'll be ready to quickly plate the boat.

Driving: My method for launching was to use very little plate until I hammered the throttle. Then catch the nose at about 10 to 15 degrees above the horizon with however much plate it took to achieve that (we're talking very aggressive here). That would let the prop lift the tail and free up the boat early. Going down track as the plate becomes more effective I would roll out of the down pedal keeping the nose at about 5 degrees above the horizon. Usually all the way out at about 500 feet. I used much the same approach from Super Mod to BGF.

Above all start slow, practice, practice, practice, get to know the boat, what it does in various water states, winds, and speeds. This "unsolicited" advice is for very light boats but the principles should be the same. Aggressive moves at the start, quick subtle moves at speed. For example if the nose suddenly comes up while going balls out don't slam the throttle shut and jump hard on the plate but quickly catch the boat with just enough pedal to stop the lift and roll out of the gas.

Read you text book, there will be a test next Friday.:D

I Appreciate all the above information very much and no offense taken, this is just the kind of information i am asking for input on.You are very correct on my lack of knowledge when it comes to v-drives which is none other than they look and sound awesome and as far as HIPO outboards i don't think it translates at all. My Flat Bottom has a well built fully rollered b/b 461 BBC and a 12% overdriven caselle with 1 fixed cavitation plate across the back and a 2 blade hydro prop with out a whirlaway. I am trying to absorb as much information and understanding as i can before i get her or hopefully not me wet. I plan on getting her wet in a week or 2 so i am absorbing as much knowledge as i can, i spoke with JJ today on the phone he was saying basically the same thing you have said. I guess i have a whole lot to learn:eek:

Thanks for the input...............

[DaveA]

And all this time I thought they were Clutch, Brake, and Throttle...

At least it seemed to slow down when I hit the brake pedal...sorta.

Thanks for all the information!

:D

[Terrible toy]

Whoa! SunnyGlide, I should have noted that the driving style I described was from a rolling start. The one used in boat drag racing until the late 90s or so. The dead start they use now would require a little different method. There are probable some here who have experience with dead starts. I have never raced using it, but my guess is that you would pre-load the plate a tad before nailing the loud pedal.

Shooter2, you're probable right about the 12s. I suggested that because those were the gears I used in Super Mod flat with 440 inch motors. But I was spinning those engines over 9 grand to get 124 mph. My guess was that Dry's engine wouldn't be seeing that rpm so could use a low gear for short squirts dusting off jet boats.

[RiverRacer]

this is my current set-up, notice the slip collar against the plate + adjustmnet tangs, in this position I have only "Down" no "Up", 2get "up" the slip collar needs2B slid forward on the shaft < in that set-up there is no use of the tangs, but both peddles work now.

That is a typical drag boat deal instead of a handle to adjust the max height of the plate, in other words that's as high as the plates will go, so you set it to it's proper riding attitude, so when you get on the up pedal all you do is hold it at that point so the plate don't get sucked down at speed(90-95+)but right now don't even think about the up pedal you won't need it garonteed!...

[RiverRacer]

My Flat Bottom has a well built 521 BBC and a 12% overdriven caselle with 1 fixed cavitation plate across the back and a 2 blade hydro prop with out a whirlaway.

You have a hydro prop on a flat and and fixed plates and no whirlaway, I sure hope you don't plan on running that way!..:eek::eek::eek:

[Terrible toy]

Amen to that Art. I could post a pic of a cleaver I have for him to compare to. Might be just a name confusion thing.

It might be half interesting to find out what one would do on a flat. Probable be real safe, you could never get the nose up.

[RiverRacer]

It might be half interesting to find out what one would do on a flat. Probable be real safe, you could never get the nose up.

I remember back in the 80's a guy tried that, big mistake but he was lucky, it threw him out quick, if he'd a stayed on the throttle he'd a crashed for sure, needless to say that prop came off real quick!..!..

[dry]

It seems from all i have heard there are 2 pedals to be concerned about and to use both sparingly on my maiden voyage and then some. 1 is the down pedal and 2 is the throttle and the rest i will learn from feeling the boat out..............If the dang rain keeps up i may be able to try here out in the neighborhood!!!

[RiverRacer]

Don't even think about the up pedal, you won't be needing it!...

[RiverRacer]

My set up seems to be real similar to his except my springs are very long in the back about the length of the motor..........So if i understand everybody correctly the down plate is the main one to use??? which should be the right pedal?:eek:

Don't matter how long the springs are it's the pressure that counts, if you need more stretch them out some!... Look at your pedals and learn what you have, if you notice the left pedal is hooked up to the rod and when you push down on the pedal it pulls the rod forward, now go to the back of the boat and see what that does, plates go down!...

[dry]

With it setting on the trailer it will allow you to push the left pedal, if you try to push the right pedal it won't budge at all but the cavitation plate is setting flat on the back of the trailer bunks, so i figured the right is down since i can't even budge it and yes there is a split locking collar on the rod just in front of the drivers seat. The prop is what to me would be called a cleaver but i may be wrong here is a pic.....JJ has already seen it the prop pic. This prop has been ran in california on this boat for the past 5 or so years.
http://gamblerowners.com/JUSX/upload/files/centerconsole/sangerprop.JPG

[Terrible toy]

Thats a cleaver alright. The pic is of a Cary cleaver I ran on comp and UGHs.

The only reason I can think of as to why that prop would half way work is that it's so close to the bottom that turbulence is not letting it lift???. I would still suggest getting a non surface running water flapper.

[RiverRacer]

Thats a cleaver alright. The pic is of a Cary cleaver I ran on comp and UGHs.

The only reason I can think of as to why that prop would half way work is that it's so close to the bottom that turbulence is not letting it lift???. I would still suggest getting a non surface running water flapper.

The faster you go the more it lifts, and the more power you have the quicker things go fubar!..

[RiverRacer]

With it setting on the trailer it will allow you to push the left pedal, if you try to push the right pedal it won't budge at all but the cavitation plate is setting flat on the back of the trailer bunks, so i figured the right is down since i can't even budge it and yes there is a split locking collar on the rod just in front of the drivers seat. The prop is what to me would be called a cleaver but i may be wrong here is a pic.....JJ has already seen it the prop pic. This prop has been ran in california on this boat for the past 5 or so years.
http://gamblerowners.com/JUSX/upload/files/centerconsole/sangerprop.JPG

But how did it run and how much power did it have?????????!...

Not trying to be a smartass here, but you need to learn what you have and how things works before you get in this boat, or you could be in for the hurts big time!.. You can't push the up pedal because it's up against the stop, the left pedal is "DOWN" that's why you can push it!.. Get someone to push on the pedals and go back there and look what's going on, it's very simple!...

[shooter2]

Dry: I read your first post and it says that you were an outboard racer. The down pedal is similar to lowering your power trim into the water. Slows the boat down, the up pedal is your power trim up is used to fly the boat and more speed. YOU DO NOT NEED TO USE THIS PEDAL AT THIS TIME. After you do what Art has suggested to you about seeing what happens at the back of the boat when the down pedal is pushed and you decide that you are ready to take the boat for a ride, here a a couple of hints. The first one is cruising along at 40 mph work the down pedal back and forth and it will give you an idea of what happens when it is applied. The bow of the boat will drop into the water. Think of the down pedal as your clutch, not that it works like one though, you SLOWLY let off the down pedal as your speed increases. DO NOT just jump off the down, let the boat take a set. DO NOT jump of the gas and jump on the down as this may cause you to go for a swim. DO NOT jump on the gas without the down pedal applied. DO slowly get off the down after the boat takes a set, use the down to help the boat to turn. The only reason for the up pedal is to hold the plate in its position while at speed. The water will suck the plate down therfore giving you the same affect as using the down pedal. The new capsule boat that I race only has a down pedal. The more spring pressure that you have the less the plate will suck down. But you dont want too much spring pressure as then you will not be able to push the pedal down. This is a personal preference depending on your own strength. That is why I have spent the last 6 mths in the gym getting in shape to race this boat. I hope this has helped you a bit.

Brian

[RiverRacer]

Hey Brian, are you putting an air assist in yours???..

[shooter2]

No it is just a conventional down pedal set up. I have never even seen one of these air assist systems. What do you know about them??? Any pics????

Brian

[RiverRacer]

They are the shit, you can have a ton of spring pressure and yet adjust it to whatever is your comfort is, but yet if a failure should occur it just goes back to manual you never lose control. This is the only pic I have, it also has a small tank that mounts wherever is convenient!. I know the guy that invented it he lives right down the road from me, he has a very bad back and did the sciatic nerve thing like I did and couldn't drive his boat so he came up with this deal, and it is badass!..

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/8712/airassistwe9.jpg

[shooter2]

Looks like how I thought about it. But it must have a very quick exhaust valve to allow the pedal to come back up quick enough. Does the cylinder exhaust to the atmosphere??? It sure looks cool. About time we started to make some changes in these boat.

[RiverRacer]

There is no delay whatsoever it's just like it wasn't there, but without the pressure. And yes it releases to the atmosphere it sounds like an air shifter!..

[shooter2]

How many psi is the bottle charged up with, and how big is the bottle?

[RiverRacer]

The bottle is small and it'll last a weekend if you're not radical on the plates, but it comes with a kit to fill from a divers tank so you could refill it after every heat if you wanted to!..

[FC-Pilot]

Brian, those things are all the rage over here. If it weren't for the fact that Buzzz and I are retired football players that forgot to retire the mentality we would have put one in. There is a guy over here that is even doing a hydraulic unit. We may just look into that one for a future boat.

Paul

[SonnyGlide]

I stood/supported my calipers on the trailer under the plate, zero'd the face, mashed on the peddle, then look'd at the face, 1.09 in. of down.

Redneck engineering:D

[RiverRacer]

Should be ok????.

[dry]

Ok i appreciate everyones input, the only thing to do from here is double check everything out on the boat to make sure all is well and get it wet. I imagine in the next week or 2 i will dunk the boat and see what happens. I sincerely Thank EVERYONE for there input and guidance.......I guess all that can be said from here is Get her WET and Let her Rip and see what happens........I am sure it will be a Rush!

"Correction as outboard2" mentioned he thought i used to be an O/B Racer, that is incorrect i have Lived and breathed HIPO Outboards for the past 10-15 years BUT I was not nor have i been a racer just wanted to make sure i didnot mislead anybody.

[Terrible toy]

Looks like how I thought about it. But it must have a very quick exhaust valve to allow the pedal to come back up quick enough. Does the cylinder exhaust to the atmosphere??? It sure looks cool. About time we started to make some changes in these boat.

Why didn't they think of that when I was driving boats? I haven't been able to wear a bathing suit since then...my right leg is so skinny compared to my left.:o

[dry]

Why didn't they think of that when I was driving boats? I haven't been able to wear a bathing suit since then...my right leg is so skinny compared to my left.:o

This kind of sounds like a good fitness program, looks like my waist and legs may finally match once again...........:eek::D

[RiverRacer]

Why didn't they think of that when I was driving boats? I haven't been able to wear a bathing suit since then...my right leg is so skinny compared to my left.:o

Bill, the guy that invented it has a bitchin circle boat and they are not like a drag boat and take a set quick where you're off the plate quick, you're half ways down the straights before you can get off the pedal(that's providing you can get off)then you hit the turn and it starts all over again so you don't get any rest, and you do that for 5 laps. This guy has a real bad back(sciatic nerve and stuff)and he couldn't hold the plate down, that's what made him design this deal. But quite a few drag guys have also went to this deal also!..

[Terrible toy]

Bill, the guy that invented it has a bitchin circle boat and they are not like a drag boat and take a set quick where you're off the plate quick, you're half ways down the straights before you can get off the pedal(that's providing you can get off)then you hit the turn and it starts all over again so you don't get any rest, and you do that for 5 laps. This guy has a real bad back(sciatic nerve and stuff)and he couldn't hold the plate down, that's what made him design this deal. But quite a few drag guys have also went to this deal also!..

Proves the old adage, that as soon as there is a problem someone will invent a solution. Wonder if he was into hydraulics? Had to be a little hard to design something that would pressure and bleed down in two directions so fast.

My hats off to the circle shoes, looked like a hard way to make a buck.

[shooter2]

Bill, the guy that invented it has a bitchin circle boat and they are not like a drag boat and take a set quick where you're off the plate quick, you're half ways down the straights before you can get off the pedal(that's providing you can get off)then you hit the turn and it starts all over again so you don't get any rest, and you do that for 5 laps. This guy has a real bad back(sciatic nerve and stuff)and he couldn't hold the plate down, that's what made him design this deal. But quite a few drag guys have also went to this deal also!..

And I thought that my balls weren't big enough to get off the down sooner. LOL. I have only actually used the up a few times. But the boat sure does pick up and go. And I also run alot of spring pressure. It really does amaze me how fast the drag boats take a set.

Brian

[RiverRacer]

And I thought that my balls weren't big enough to get off the down sooner. LOL. I have only actually used the up a few times. But the boat sure does pick up and go. And I also run alot of spring pressure. It really does amaze me how fast the drag boats take a set.

Brian

Other than being a v-drive boat, they are a totally different animal in every way!.. I lost a lot of strenght in my left leg after I went thru lower back issues also, I can push but I can't hold, so I can't use a lot of pressure, I had my pedals clocked so I didn't have to get off the down to use the up, just move my toe over, worked pretty good!..

[GR8WHITE]

i got one for you guys, i will be replacing my cav. plate soon and changing it to an aluminum piece and when i adjust my plate, will it be the same process for the rest of you guys cause i have that lebel with a real shallow v, thanks guys.

[shooter2]

Other than being a v-drive boat, they are a totally different animal in every way!.. I lost a lot of strenght in my left leg after I went thru lower back issues also, I can push but I can't hold, so I can't use a lot of pressure, I had my pedals clocked so I didn't have to get off the down to use the up, just move my toe over, worked pretty good!..


Had a similar set up in the Gambler boat that I drove and yes, it is much easier. This set up had the up above the down so all you had to do was rock your foot to lock the up pedal. Not only that but this boat was set up where you could use the up pedal. And I did on that one when I drove it. Best handling boat I have ever driven.

[RiverRacer]

Yeah that works pretty good, that shit about lifting your foot and move over to the other pedal just don't cut it shit happens too quick don't have time for that stuff!..

[SonnyGlide]

around 22-2500 the boat porpoises a lill, I use a lill down to smooth it out, just a hit,....then 2500 on up, unless I hit the loud, shes fine,
(15 gears w/10.75 big round ear flatty prop)
my plates are set netrual all the way across< dose this set-up mean I have too much boat in the water vs. where the prop is at, and a lill UP on the plate would= less boat in the water and take more of a set at cruz!
also, I gotta put a lill left rudder N around 28mph and up. will a lill down on the left corner of the plate help, she likes to pull just a lill to the right. the faster I go the more left rudder< its normal?

Racer: U said someting about this once, can U re-explaine:o

thanks all, I'd rather have some background vs. bang'n on the ol'girl all summer to get it right:eek:

[RiverRacer]

It's normal to have some pull that's prop torque, but if you have to turn the wheel more as speed picks up, better tighten the cables up!..

[SonnyGlide]

cables R good, so its prop Torque, what about the low spd. hop?

[shooter2]

Paul/Buzz: How'd you like the feeling of the motor starting and the boat lifting out of the water, then the bow taking a bit of a set? That was when I felt like it was going to be fun? In a b-boat I always felt so much lower than I did in a Rayson or a Mandella or my Dads old Hurricane.

Brian

[RiverRacer]

cables R good, so its prop Torque, what about the low spd. hop?

At low speed you have to use the plate to keep it from hopping, you're not applying the power to put it on a set!..

[RiverRacer]

Paul/Buzz: How'd you like the feeling of the motor starting and the boat lifting out of the water, then the bow taking a bit of a set? That was when I felt like it was going to be fun? In a b-boat I always felt so much lower than I did in a Rayson or a Mandella or my Dads old Hurricane.

Brian

That's because a B boat runs flat, if you think a Rayson is high take a ride in a runner drag boat once!..:D

[FC-Pilot]

Well being that this is on the Cav plate post I will share our experience. The boat did not want to fully "Set" as we always had to have some down to it. We took it out with a rough setup we were given by Art, and it looks like it needs to be set a little further down. We spoke with some people that have worked on setups closer to ours and got some ideas. The consensus is to drop the center and outside just a little more than what Art had suggested. Being that it is a small block boat and is setup a little different than a Big block boat we are going to give it a whirl. If this thing will set down and run, look out because we are going to think we are geniuses.:eek::p Our heads may get so big we may have to get new helmets. Of course we will forget all the people that gave us invaluable info and take all the credit for ourselves.;) (Isn't that how it always goes Art)?

Paul

[SonnyGlide]

please keep me posted, either here or P/M, as I have a sbc too N a Sanger
Thanks:)

[RiverRacer]

please keep me posted, either here or P/M, as I have a sbc too N a Sanger
Thanks:)

You can't compare yours to a B boat, way different!..

[RiverRacer]

Well being that this is on the Cav plate post I will share our experience. The boat did not want to fully "Set" as we always had to have some down to it. We took it out with a rough setup we were given by Art, and it looks like it needs to be set a little further down. We spoke with some people that have worked on setups closer to ours and got some ideas. The consensus is to drop the center and outside just a little more than what Art had suggested. Being that it is a small block boat and is setup a little different than a Big block boat we are going to give it a whirl. If this thing will set down and run, look out because we are going to think we are geniuses.:eek::p Our heads may get so big we may have to get new helmets. Of course we will forget all the people that gave us invaluable info and take all the credit for ourselves.;) (Isn't that how it always goes Art)?

Paul

All depends on how much rocker there is, if you have a lot of rocker and you bring the plates down too far you create a hook, big/small block don't mean squat it's the power, gear and prop combo that matters!..

[FC-Pilot]

please keep me posted, either here or P/M, as I have a sbc too N a Sanger
Thanks:)

Unfortunately Art is right. This Biesemeyer requires a much different setup than typical flats.

Paul

[Norcal_73]

I am having a hard time with getting it to set at high rpms. bow wants to hop. drop the plate down with the peddle and lock handle two notches then it creates too much drag in the water. Try it again next weekend.

[shooter2]

I guess this is what I was trying to say, or talk about. It was the feeling of sitting in the boat waiting for the 5 to go off, the boat rocking in the waves from those damn hydros, it goes off and then you get the motor to start, the boat vibrates and all the water runs off the deck, (onto your lap) and you give it about 1/2 down pedal to get it to lay down, still not going very fast, just getting some heat into it. And now you are getting ready to race, man those 5 go fast. This was my favourite feeling, knowing that you are about to go racing and everything seems ok. It has been years for me since I used a flat as a pleasure boat so I dont know if its the same feeling, but I sure am looking forward to feeling it again within the month. Sorry if this sounds stupid but it is what I felt just before the race was to start.

Brian

[canam10]

[QUOTE=RiverRacer;1885]

you're half ways down the straights before you can get off the pedal(that's providing you can get off)then you hit the turn and it starts all over again so you don't get any rest, and you do that for 5 laps.

Damn Art,
Wish I had that much HP !!! I only ever had good SS power and 90% of the courses we run on back East, the turns are at least as wide as Burley. If I wasn't coming off the down pedal by the apex pin and completely off as I rounded the exit pin I would be in about 10th place !!
There has been alot of good advice giving on this thread but some of the best is take your time learning how that boat works and be SMOOTH. NO jump'in, mash'in etc. Be smooth.

[shooter2]

Bill, the guy that invented it has a bitchin circle boat and they are not like a drag boat and take a set quick where you're off the plate quick, you're half ways down the straights before you can get off the pedal(that's providing you can get off)then you hit the turn and it starts all over again so you don't get any rest, and you do that for 5 laps. This guy has a real bad back(sciatic nerve and stuff)and he couldn't hold the plate down, that's what made him design this deal. But quite a few drag guys have also went to this deal also!..


Who came up with it anyways? Or at least what was his boat?

[RiverRacer]

Who came up with it anyways? Or at least what was his boat?

Don't think he wants his name announced, but lives right down the road from me and he has a beautiful maroon B boat, and it hauls ass!..

[FC-Pilot]

[QUOTE=RiverRacer;1885]

you're half ways down the straights before you can get off the pedal(that's providing you can get off)then you hit the turn and it starts all over again so you don't get any rest, and you do that for 5 laps.

Damn Art,
Wish I had that much HP !!! I only ever had good SS power and 90% of the courses we run on back East, the turns are at least as wide as Burley. If I wasn't coming off the down pedal by the apex pin and completely off as I rounded the exit pin I would be in about 10th place !!
There has been alot of good advice giving on this thread but some of the best is take your time learning how that boat works and be SMOOTH. NO jump'in, mash'in etc. Be smooth.

Tim, it sounds as if your boat was perfectly set up. I have heard a number of guys that spend quite a bit of time on the down before they can ease off of it.

Paul

[shooter2]

[QUOTE=canam10;2194]

Tim, it sounds as if your boat was perfectly set up. I have heard a number of guys that spend quite a bit of time on the down before they can ease off of it.

Paul

It sure was, as I remember Tim always ran well. Prop, gear and plate make it work. Doesnt matter how much hp you have if these aren't right then you are going to be fighting it all the time. You could have alot or very little hp, if you are not set up then it is as battle.

Brian

[RiverRacer]

[QUOTE=FC-Pilot;2220]

It sure was, as I remember Tim always ran well. Prop, gear and plate make it work. Doesnt matter how much hp you have if these aren't right then you are going to be fighting it all the time. You could have alot or very little hp, if you are not set up then it is as battle.

Brian

Well, actually the power, prop, gear, plates and the bottom all play into the equation, off on one and you won't have a 100% boat!..

[canam10]

[QUOTE=canam10;2194]

Tim, it sounds as if your boat was perfectly set up. I have heard a number of guys that spend quite a bit of time on the down before they can ease off of it.

Paul

Paul,
Yes , I was (am) very fortunate to have an extremely well handling boat. None of which I can take much credit for. I really have to thank Julian for selling me a "Team" boat and I'm sure Ray for all the time he spent to make sure the boat was perfect. We have had plenty of talks as to if there was/is a difference in a Team hull or not and I for one believe there is enough difference in the hulls to make the "Team" boats just a little better.
Racing as a SS I was lucky enough to be competitive and have a chance to win at all races we attended. With SS power I was even lucky enough to win my share of SK and PS races. The last couple years I spent racing the Canam Series even the best handling boat with SS power I was pretty much only a top 5 boat. Brian,as you know there were plenty of good boats and drivers back than but big HP was tuff to beat no matter how good the boat is. During all the years I raced that boat The only changes I ever made was in the prop and gears. Julian liked a little different combination than I usually ran and with his set up there was no doubt the boat was a bit eaiser to drive. Paul, I have been thinking and am a little puzzled as to how you have your boat set up and the advice and direction you maybe going in but you also have to remember I'm just the driver and my "Team" always told me "Don't think it can only hurt the team, just drive"!!

[canam10]

[QUOTE=shooter2;2193]I guess this is what I was trying to say, or talk about. It was the feeling of sitting in the boat waiting for the 5 to go off, the boat rocking in the waves from those damn hydros, it goes off and then you get the motor to start, the boat vibrates and all the water runs off the deck, (onto your lap)

Brian[/QUOT

Damn Brian,
What the hell are ya doing putting the nose in the water that deep to have water running in your lap !!! Sitting in the boat waiting for the 5 minute gun was always a strange time for me also. It always seemed like something would happen in the heat before us and we would be sitting in the boat forever. Funny part for me was I would actually fall asleep in the boat waiting for the 5. I think I would get so hyped up all day waiting to race once I was in the boat I was "Home".

[shooter2]

Damn Brian,
What the hell are ya doing putting the nose in the water that deep to have water running in your lap !!! Sitting in the boat waiting for the 5 minute gun was always a strange time for me also. It always seemed like something would happen in the heat before us and we would be sitting in the boat forever. Funny part for me was I would actually fall asleep in the boat waiting for the 5. I think I would get so hyped up all day waiting to race once I was in the boat I was "Home".[/QUOTE]

Well I am sure you remember how busy it gets at the dock, it always seemed that there would be a few splashes that would land the water on the deck while you are sitting there waiting. Shit I thought I was the only one that fell asleep waiting for the 5. It will be intresting waiting for the 5 in the capsule boat. Thinking Mel and I will have to come up with some way to signal the 1 to the five and the 5.

And also I remember the 80's before I started driving and the guys that had alot of money in there stuff ran very well. But do you remember Gordie taking everybody to school in about '91 in Tonawanda with his ss motor. Rough water ( as usual). Andy was in Donners boat, Peter broke, Roger Willis was there, Rob Hill, and that was the first year for Norm and the new Gambler. Anyways Gordie showed them how to get it done, Gordie always was one of the best rough water drivers.
Brian

[FC-Pilot]

[QUOTE=FC-Pilot;2220]

Paul,
I have been thinking and am a little puzzled as to how you have your boat set up and the advice and direction you maybe going in but you also have to remember I'm just the driver and my "Team" always told me "Don't think it can only hurt the team, just drive"!!

Tim, being that putting a small block in this thing is so different than a big block deal I have to listen to those who have done it before. Jim Newton has been a world of help being that he used to run small block b-boats. From here we are on our own (which is the scariest part of this).:eek: I guess from here we have to learn what the heck we are doing. (Man I wish this thing had wheels).:p:D

Paul

[RiverRacer]

It's just an ole B boat!.LOL...:D

[canam10]

[QUOTE=canam10;2449]

Tim, being that putting a small block in this thing is so different than a big block deal I have to listen to those who have done it before.
Paul

Thats the part I'm a bit confused about. I'm have a hard time getting it into my head, what would be so different. Sounds like you've done some researce and are most likely on the right track. I am really curious as to what changes you have made, if at sometime your willing to share. From what I have been hearing, there was know SS or K's in Parker and they are not running them in Firebird because of low boat counts. I'm sure the economy has a great deal to do with it. I have not heard anything from Rob or anyone else for that matter but I'm still holding out hope for that SE class to get a chance with APBA. If we ever get a green light I would run my Biesemeyer along with the Starfire to make sure we had good boat count.

[poncho]

You have a Beeze and a Starfire,NICE.Grew up in Seattle and used to be involved in roundy round,those Starfires fly

[shooter2]

Were there not ss ps or k's at Parker a couple of weeks ago?

Brian

[RiverRacer]

Were there not ss ps or k's at Parker a couple of weeks ago?

Brian

Yes there was, just not as good of turn out as before!..

[FC-Pilot]

There was SS, PS and K in attendance. There was an issue being that a PS boat ran with the K boats to fill a heat and that caused some friction. Unfortunately there will not be any circle boats at Firebird this week.

Tim, in speaking with Jim Newton about building a small block boat (which he built and ran in past years) his first thing he said to do was move the strut four inches forward.:eek: He then said to shorten the plates to seven inches (which we are close to). He also gave us some reference to engine placement (which I can't remember off the top of my head) which we also followed. He said it takes a while to get the plates just right with the small block due to the lack of power and that will be what takes fine tuning.

By no means do I think I am smarter than anyone, but felt I would be even more foolish if I didn't listen to someone that had been down this road before. Based of some of the info that we got we need to play with props to help get the RPM's and gears happy with the boat as a package. If we were dropping in a BBC we would already be flying due to the fact that everybody has built one. I can count the small block B-boats on one hand. I know of three others besides ours and only two of the three are running well. One of those has a monster small block in it which makes it more like a big block. Anyway, we have a ton more testing to do before we decide we need to make a big change.

Paul